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The invisible man with the power to control everything in the universe, including the ability to watch everything everybody does and reward/punish either here or in the afterlife. Sort of like Santa Claus on steroids. Lump of coal = hell, toys under the tree = heaven.
Not my own words, but a dictionary definition that fits for me: "One that is worshiped ... or followed." "Money was their god."
Aisi, then, "God" is whatever one views as something greater than themselves with which they desire to align themselves and how they live their lives, and to expend effort in knowing/experiencing more fully ... Could be a deity or deities, a "higher self", nature, or a guiding life principle, among other things.
ETA: I guess I should add that this is my personal definition. I'm fully aware that when discussing "God" here on these boards, the definition of God is more along the lines of a living "Something" that is the foundation and/or creator of the universe.
Not my own words, but a dictionary definition that fits for me: "One that is worshiped ... or followed." "Money was their god."
good point Pleroo. "science is their god" is one we see a lot of on this forum.
it is an "i will do whatever it tells me to, it is running my life." in addictions alcohol and drugs are god; or gambling is god. or the demands of an abusive spouse are god. it is what a person builds their life around and holds most dear, it is do whatever it takes to get, it is the supreme organizing principle or priority in their life. it is the activity around which a person devotes their most time, thought, attention, focus.
everybody has such a god including agnostics and atheists. money is a common god. wealth. luxury. intellectual superiority is one we see a lot on these boards. TV sports is god for my father, all family activities and meals and discussion revolve around television sports.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-12-2015 at 12:57 PM..
I prefer our own Nozz's definition, as it reflects the belief most often promoted / defended by theists here: "An invisible, conscious, intelligent agent responsible for the creation and maintenance of the universe". (If I recall correctly). And I would add, "which makes ownership and management claims on humans as to their belief, behavior and attitudes."
OP, we have a perfectly good term for the universe: "universe". Given that, why call the universe god? Most of us godless folk just see that as an attempt to sneak in an argument for god by pointing to something visible. Usually there is someone not far behind peddling some more specific invisible / abstract version of god built up from that. And it ends up looking suspiciously like my definition above.
Most of us godless folk just see that as an attempt to sneak in an argument for god by pointing to something visible. Usually there is someone not far behind peddling some more specific invisible / abstract version of god built up from that.
so using Pleroo's excellent example....what's the most important force / motivation / principle in your life?
naturally we are leaving any pesky "deity" out of it as it is not present or relevant for an atheist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Not my own words, but a dictionary definition that fits for me: "One that is worshiped ... or followed." "Money was their god."
so mordant (or any other atheist or agnostic) what is it for you? money? TV sports? luxury? big retirement fund and 401k? surfing the internet? smoking grass? intellectual preening? science? home ownership? membership in an organization? performance awards at work? wine collection? career advancement? those are just examples, what is the most compelling priority and focus for you? what gets most of your time and attention and is most important to you? that is for the purposes of this definition and discussion your god. what do you structure your time and life and priorities and attention around?
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-12-2015 at 04:39 PM..
I prefer our own Nozz's definition, as it reflects the belief most often promoted / defended by theists here: "An invisible, conscious, intelligent agent responsible for the creation and maintenance of the universe". (If I recall correctly). And I would add, "which makes ownership and management claims on humans as to their belief, behavior and attitudes."
OP, we have a perfectly good term for the universe: "universe". Given that, why call the universe god? Most of us godless folk just see that as an attempt to sneak in an argument for god by pointing to something visible. Usually there is someone not far behind peddling some more specific invisible / abstract version of god built up from that. And it ends up looking suspiciously like my definition above.
I prefer our own Nozz's definition, as it reflects the belief most often promoted / defended by theists here: "An invisible, conscious, intelligent agent responsible for the creation and maintenance of the universe". (If I recall correctly). And I would add, "which makes ownership and management claims on humans as to their belief, behavior and attitudes."
I would second this, with the addition of transcendence. I tend to think that an entity which is bound by reality, while possibly immeasurably more powerful or intelligent, is still a limited, finite being. Even though Donald Trump is richer, more powerful, and more popular than I will ever be, I don't believe he is a god. Likewise, any being that is finite, that is limited by reality itself is just another person, albeit a much more powerful one... This is also why I tend to place the Gods of antiquity in a different sort of category than the more modern concepts of God. Zeus, Thor, Baal, even the early concepts of the Biblical God are much more of the category of "supermen". They are not so transcendent, but rather beings who have tempers, jealousy, can be fooled, lie, change their mind and the like, who happen to be really powerful, and thus should not be messed with.
I also tend to think that Pleroo's definition misses the point. That is a secondary definition, which is metaphoric. Without the idea of transcendent, powerful beings who either deserve or demand worship and devotion, the idea of something worshipped or followed as a "god" is meaningless. When the Bible says, "...their god is their stomach...", it does not mean that the digestive organs of certain sinners have taken their place in the divine pantheon, and are now deities just like Jesus. It means that these "sinners" pursue their own physical desires with a passion and fervor equal to that which is devoted to the Triune God of Christianity. The entire phrase is meaningless with some other definition of "god" because it is a metaphor.
For Tzaphkiel, I think the point is missed intentionally. Gotta love those theist semantic games...
If we are going to discuss life priorities we can do that, but I do not consider any of my personal priorities to be gods. They are simply life choices, not deities. And quite frankly, I don't think Tzaph actually believes that either. In any event the definition can quickly become circular an meaningless, since most theists would answer, 'Well , God is my life priority, so God is my god", which of course tells one exactly nothing about what they believe God actually is...
-NoCapo
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