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God makes everything and that includes you. My phrase was you are a beloved child of God; as a parent loves their child deeply so too God loves us
And you know this because.....? Am I supposed to be aware of his "deep love"? He loves me so much that I am not even aware that he exists much less loves me? When is he going to let me in on this little secret?
Why invoke a god when you don't have an answer to the natural phenomena we observe in our Universe and experience in our daily lives?
For those who do not have any experience that would cause them to believe in God, it would simply be a preference. Your preference is to "Not know" what is responsible for our reality and our existence and use euphemisms to pretend that we do know. The names cloak our ignorance sufficiently and your lack of curiosity about it is probably driven by its ineffable character. Those of us who have experienced God use the name because we know it accurately describes the source of our reality.
.... Am I supposed to be aware of his "deep love"? He loves me so much that I am not even aware that he exists much less loves me? When is he going to let me in on this little secret?
For me God is the Creator of everything and permeates everything. Not a metaphor.
We have a word for everything and the everything that permeates everything. It is "everything". I see no utility in rolling in another word for it, especially one that comes with the metaphysical and unsubstantiated baggage that "god" comes with.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
And you are a beloved child of God, regardless of whether you claim the label
And you are simply perpetrating unsubstantiated narratives again, none of which you lend substance to when asked.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
Good to hear there are atheists who believe in spirits. What do you mean by spirits?
Yes atheists can believe in unsubstantiated nonsense too, they are not immune just because they do not believe in the same unsubstantiated nonsense as yourself.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
So now you are saying atheists can believe in and have interactions with spirits but if they do they are called crazy?
For those who do not have any experience that would cause them to believe in God, it would simply be a preference.
Utter nonsense.
I have had many experiences throughout my life that people such as yourself would claim is "god".
Before I comment any further please define what you mean by "god". What are it's defining qualities?
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Your preference is to "Not know" what is responsible for our reality
More nonsense. My preference is to understand without invoking an invisible man in the sky that most people have trouble describing or defining...they instead use euphemisms to pretend that they "know".
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The names cloak our ignorance sufficiently and your lack of curiosity about it is probably driven by its ineffable character.
LOL! I have a much greater curiosity about the Universe than you will ever understand.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Those of us who have experienced God use the name because we know it accurately describes the source of our reality.
We hate to break it to you Mystic...most everyone has experienced what you call "god".
Some of us are much wiser and less conditioned about how we describe this experience than you are.
This is actually a very good thread. Why do the atheists not believre in God? Because they have a distorted view of what God is supposed to be, so the concept seems ridiculous. Case in point, second poster compared God to Santa Claus. No they aren't the same thing. Likewise, Muslims have a view that somehow their god will reward what is essentially bad behavior. I daresay this is distorted too.
What is God? Well I've defined God before on this thread, but let's talk about something else.
Specifically why God isn't a Santa figure, or an insane being who rewards bloodlust and scoffs at legitimate peace.
Suppose you are born yesterday, only instead of a mewling sobbing baby, you are a fully grown adult, Kyle XY style. Now, as you start out, you have essentially only physical reality. What you see and hear is all you know. Essentially, this is the world materialism asserts is the only one that exists. However, the more you learn, the more you encounter concepts that don't actually exist in the real world. Numbers exist in counts, but prior to something to write or draw on, there was no real √3 in the universe. Nor was there a naturally occuring triangle until someone built a house with a roof in this way. The mental reality uses knowledge combined with symbolic concepts to reinforce said knowledge. But some of these concepts only exist on the mental reality. Now, there is a third reality known as ultimate reality. This concept pervades in some Jewish mysticism and Christian hermeticism, and some branches of philosophy. But we're going to take a break for now and just say that to the average person who has never had an encounter with God, this version of reality is closed off. Not locked, so much as behind a veil. They see the world, but it never seems more than going to school, learning things, going to work, sleeping, etc. It's like... like a fish that can't see outside its fish bowl.
Now where do Islam and atheism fit in this? To the atheist, the veil is the end of their perception. They have never perceived Ultimate Reality. No big deal. The Muslim, on the other hand, I have choicer words for. You see, what happens when you have a person who has been driven out of his tribal community, has a purely mental understanding of what they think their god should be, and a desire for revenge against the world? Right, the angel the guy claimed to have seen was none other than a demon. Or in layman's terms, Mohammed was lost inside his head, and encountered a delusion. He was a schizophrenic with violent tendencies who encountered a psychotic break. He saw what he wanted to see, and was told what he wanted to hear, that somehow if you hurt and kill others, god will reward you. This is at odds with what every religious leader will tell you, aside from cult leaders.
Okay, rant over. There is a better way than following some stooge who basically has no answers that he didn't plagiarize from other religions, or going through the motions from birth to death. It's time to talk about Ultimate Reality.
First off, before any followers of said stooge try to tell me that the sighting of miracles, or the resurrection of Jesus are "just the same," consider this. It was at one point siuggested that this event, that of Jesus's resurrection, was a type of mass hallucination. But they found flaws with this theory:
1. Mass hallucination, assuming such an absurd thing exists (it is harder to believe than simply an out of the ordinary event happened) would have varying accounts. As in, even if all of the disciples took some bad mushrooms, they would not be seeing the same stuff. And you may, but there is varying scripture. Yes, but it is generally agreed that those people saw Jesus raised not a purple butterfly. There can be minor variations of an event but in order for common percetion to exist, a common event must exist.
2. Second, someone coming back from the dead is not actually unthinkable. Resuscitation in medicine is common, there are people pronounced dead who have come back, and at the time a coma was confused for death. Given events to hallucinate about, this one is not a stretch.
3. A typical hallucination tells people what they want to hear. As in, if this event had been a hallucination it would be "all that stuff about loving your enemy, I didnt really mean it! Now go out there and make some money!" Uh no. He told them to go out and spread the word. That people would hate them for it. That people would hurt them for it. Do it anyway.
4. A hallucination is a sickness of the brain. It tends to make the person unable to cope with life, resulting in them becoming paranoid or violent, and living on the fringes of society. It doesnt result in an improvement in ones life. These people indeed went out and preached to others. They used their knowledge of language to spread this knowledge to the far corners of the earth. Not violence or crazy beliefs, the idea that people should live together.
What is Ultimate Reality then? Remember the fishbowl? There is this world that we see everyday which constitutes our regular experience. But what if one day we saw outside of all of this? The Bible is mistakenly seen as a fable story by people who don't believe in it, but it is closer to a witness testimony of people seeing stuff outside the norm. And not just crazy stuff either. Think about this. At the time the Torah was written, most of other religions had idols. Or they had regional gods. But gods that are idols only exist in physical reality. And regional gods were tied to a specific mountain. Abraham encountered God in one place. Joseph in a completely different one. Moses crossed a great distance but God protected him and the other Jews. This was a deity that did not have an idol, who was not tied to a place. That means God is not a purely mental thing (something kept them from dying for years in the desert) and neither was it something like a golden calf that could be touched. This is something beyond the world we perceive, yet something part of it.
A tree is often used as an analogy for connection of physical reality to ultimate reality. One section of the tree has light and rain, the other section only feels warmth and moisture.
So if God is described as Ultimate Reality, what is Jesus? The Word (Ultimate Reality) became flesh (Physical Reality). You could talk to Jesus tomorrow, in some random guy you met. Because Ultimate Reality is part of everything, and Jesus died to save all of us, that means that Jesus is part of everyone.
This is actually a very good thread. Why do the atheists not believre in God? Because they have a distorted view of what God is supposed to be, so the concept seems ridiculous.
And as per your usual MO, you roll into a thread and tell us what YOU think atheists think. And usually when you do this you are simply wrong. I would prefer to hear from atheists what they think, rather than hear your straw man version of it.
For example MY concept of what "god" is supposed to be is no "distorted". It is a concept that matches what every Christian and Muslim I have ever met claims it to be for example. So if MY concept of god is distorted then so too are Christian and Muslim concepts of it.
For me "god" is a non-human intentional and intelligent agency. One that is responsible for the creation of our universe. What is distorted about that?
The reason I do not believe in that god? Because there is not a SHRED of argument, evidence, data or reasoning on offer (much less from you) to even begin to suggest there is such an entity.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
Case in point, second poster compared God to Santa Claus. No they aren't the same thing.
Functionally, for many, yes they are. Because many people see their god, like Santa, as a relatively powerful entity, which judges you morally in thought and deed, and modifies your well being and rewards relative to it's judgement.
In that sense their god, and santa claus, are very much the same thing.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
Numbers exist in counts, but prior to something to write or draw on, there was no real √3 in the universe.
In that sense numbers are just a language and √3 is just a label. Your nonsense therefore is the same as saying that rocks never existed until someone came along and called them rocks. The thing rocks refers to, and the thing √3 refers to, both existed before we came to label them.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
Nor was there a naturally occuring triangle until someone built a house with a roof in this way.
There wasn't? I can not WAIT to hear your substantiation for this one.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
But we're going to take a break for now and just say that to the average person who has never had an encounter with God, this version of reality is closed off. Not locked, so much as behind a veil.
That diatribe is nothing but the same old "You do not see god because you are blind to god" rhetoric we see on this forum all the time that usually leads people to harp on about "How do you explain color to the blind man" and other such nonsense.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
They have never perceived Ultimate Reality.
Yea funny how we have never perceived something you appear to have ENTIRELY made up. Wonder why that is. Perhaps because there is absolutely no reason on offer at all (least of all from you) to suggest it even exists?
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
It was at one point siuggested that this event, that of Jesus's resurrection, was a type of mass hallucination. But they found flaws with this theory:
Why does one need a theory to explain an event you have NO evidence actually occurred?
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
1. Mass hallucination, assuming such an absurd thing exists (it is harder to believe than simply an out of the ordinary event happened) would have varying accounts.
Shows how little you know about mass hallucination then.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
2. Second, someone coming back from the dead is not actually unthinkable. Resuscitation in medicine is common
And you know very little about medicine and biology too it seems. There is a CHASM of difference between "coming back from the dead" and "Resuscitation". In the latter, the patient did not actually die. The processes of life did not actually stop.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
there are people pronounced dead who have come back, and at the time a coma was confused for death.
Also entirely different. I doubt you would find many Christians subscribing to, or even willing to entertain, the idea that their alleged Messiah was anything more than a normal man who spent three days in a death like coma. It would kinda torpedo the corner stone foundation of everything they espouse.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
3. A typical hallucination tells people what they want to hear.
Where did you pull that one from? You appear to have simply made that one up. There is certainly little to nothing in the literature supporting such a claim.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
4. A hallucination is a sickness of the brain.
What do you mean "sickness" exactly? Take optical illusions for example. They are essentially hallucinations too, but they are not a sickness, but a result of how a fully functioning brain works.
You really do appear to be making a lot of stuff up here out of nowhere. Including your own terms and definitions.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
It tends to make the person unable to cope with life, resulting in them becoming paranoid or violent, and living on the fringes of society.
Quite often the EXACT opposite of what you invent here is true.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
It doesnt result in an improvement in ones life.
Many would tell you otherwise. Go ask Lorna Byrne to name but one of 100s.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
What is Ultimate Reality then?
Seemingly it is nothing more than a narrative you have wholly invented. Any evidence to the contrary is currently non-existent.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
The Bible is mistakenly seen as a fable story by people who don't believe in it, but it is closer to a witness testimony of people seeing stuff outside the norm.
Any evidence that any of those events actually happened? No? Then what are you on about?
This is actually a very good thread. Why do the atheists not believre in God? Because they have a distorted view of what God is supposed to be, so the concept seems ridiculous. Case in point, second poster compared God to Santa Claus. No they aren't the same thing. Likewise, Muslims have a view that somehow their god will reward what is essentially bad behavior. I daresay this is distorted too.
What is God? Well I've defined God before on this thread, but let's talk about something else.
(SNIPPED)
Evangelicals also believe their god will reward them for similar bad behavior..
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