Lee Remini's series on the 'religion' of Scientology

[Dan Diego]

"Hubbard was a pathological liar and a covert and violent misanthrope, who implanted people with his diabolical Suppressive Person Doctrine and turned them into hate mongers in his own image. His Scientology followers’ fear and hatred of SPs is irrational and evil, and Scientologists’ dramatization of Hubbard’s SP Doctrine is criminal and holocaustic."

from:

About SPDL


Understanding Scientology means you need to grapple with L Ron Hubbard. Deprogramming a Scientologist is an unenviable task. There are many overlapping and contradictory "policy" that are regarded as "scripture" which can never be changed or amended (unless Hubbard comes back to life to do so) or in the case of the current dictator of Scientology, David Miscavige, he decides an existing policy was tampered with somehow and he changes the existing policy (without showing any evidence) back to "the original" as written by "the founder".
Well this little game has been going on for years now since Hubbards death and Miscavige has manipulated "church" policy (while being revered by those within the bubble as the "savior" of Scientology) meaning that they buy his claims that he has restored the writings to their original meaning by Hubbard. (Miscavige blames the transcriptionists for "grammatical errors" that Hubbard chose personally before the books went to print)

To "get through" to a Scientologist requires that they are willing to risk losing their friends, business contacts and even family members (who are also in the cult) so it's a tough sell. Only when they themselves run against the grain often enough to get "declared Suppressive" do they then figure they have nothing left to lose and go on the internet to deprogram themselves.

There are useful psychological tools in Scientology but their use within the confines of the church pervert their use and effectiveness. The early 80's saw a massive exodus and since 2010 it has become a major problem for Miscavige.

While I do not condone violence or hate speech I do think that any chance to challenge the understanding of a Scientologist about the state of the church by asking civil questions helps prod them to start thinking for themselves.

It's not esoteric beliefs that are the problem in Scientology, it is the effort to conceal their PRACTICES of attacking critics and trying to discredit them.

I would never ask a Scientologists why their leader beats people up. They don't know about it.

Scientologists are the least likely to know about the factual goings on within the upper ranks of the organization.

Don't forget that many people leave the organized church of Scientology and pursue Independent Scientology centers because they found something useful in it. For the most part they are kind ethical people who only want to make a positive change in themselves and the world. DO not criticize them, most of them think they are members of the most "ethical group on the planet" Perhaps at one time they were, but since the early 60's Hubbard lost it and gradually turned it into a money grab.

[AtheistAstroGuy]

I've seen several different reports on Scientology and discussed it at length with atheists, Jews, Christians (to include Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, etc)

One thing that most of us agreed on was that foundation for the religion to be open to everyone for a religion to be valid (be it the Bible, Torah, Book of Mormon, Quran, etc) and accepted as a "Religion" for the IRS. Scientology's system of Operating Thetan (OT) levels and both the physical and monetary requirements for progression in the religion should disqualify it as a religion. To keep this post short, other religions have services that for the most part are free (although giving to receive more is often pushed) but Scientology basically charges you to progress in their "religion". It may be time or money or both, but basically their Operating Thetan (OT) levels are more like a rank in a organized structure than a religion.

Personally, being an Atheist, I don't agree with organization being tax free on the basis of a belief vs. actual humanitarian type aid. I understand a lot of churches do relief work, but their primary existence is to foster more believers.

But, I do recognize that churches do help people emotionally, so while not agreeing with our current tax law, I do understand the basis for it.

However, Scientology is basically "selling" that supposed emotional support and would fall more under some perverse psychology instead of a religion and therefore should not be tax free.

[LargeKingCat]

Originally Posted by AtheistAstroGuy

I've seen several different reports on Scientology and discussed it at length with atheists, Jews, Christians (to include Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, etc)



But, I do recognize that churches do help people emotionally, so while not agreeing with our current tax law, I do understand the basis for it.

However, Scientology is basically "selling" that supposed emotional support and would fall more under some perverse psychology instead of a religion and therefore should not be tax free.

When we were kids, Carnies would come to town once a year and set up games trying to get us to win stuffed toys. For a quarter or 50 cents a pop, we had to knock over 3 aluminum cans with a soft beanbag, we would come very close to winning, then try again, and come even closer.....and the carny would say "One more time you are going to win it"..."You are so close" "You are getting the hang of it"......but we never did. And as kids we were gullible enough to throw our allowance money away trying


So long as there are people willing to fall for the promises of self improvement, groups like Scientology will be around. There are many people who are both desperate enough and ignorant enough to shell out $50 or more for "auditing" sessions and classes, only to be reassured each time that they are "almost clear" .....

So long as there are unhappy people, gullible people, or even people who are just overly curious, groups like Scientology will be around...Charlatans will always be looking for ways to part fools from their money.

When I was in college, there was an advert for a weekend conference, which said "You will learn ESP ASTRAL PROJECTION LUCID DREAMING CHANNELING ETCETC" a...all for $500. Now I was not about to go, but I wondered how they justified taking $500 for something which is more or less bunk. I asked a professor, and he said that what would happen is that they would present the information, and if you could not perform ESP, then you were doing it wrong and needed to practice further. If you were not able to divine a set of random numbers after they showed you how, well, just keep practicing or come back to a different course for more instruction (Oh and another $500)

Sound familiar? Of course I have had church members tell me that I do not believe the Bible because I "did not read it properly" And since I am not on the hook, so to speak, I really do not care if I did not read something properly, or cannot leave my body at will to go spy on the neighbors...........
But for someone who is in a bad situation, maybe depressed, unhappy with some situation, maybe someone that feels out of control, or fears missing something in life, cults and cult like religions will always abound to offer help. For a fee of course.


You mention that when it becomes a challenge to leave a cult, I was harassed for leaving the Baptist church. Not just by members of the church, but even by a few family members as well who were involved in it.

I was glad to be free, and value my freedom, but some who get into groups like Scientology and the like do not realize that they are giving up their freedom to do so.

[woxyroxme]

My father in law lives in Clearwater FL, I have even driven by their "Vatican" and their beach front hotel.

This video says it all.

[LAX Star]

Originally Posted by dillionmt

Is anyone else following the fascinating series that Lee Remini is doing on Scientology on A&E. I find it incredulous that due to the 1st Amendment, so many human rights are allowed to be carried out by a "church".

Like most religions, it is nothing but a money making machine for those at the top, and it's 'ecclesiastical' promises can't hold water.

Thoughts?

I have not heard about nor have I seen the A&E series. Sorry.

And I truly think that Scientilogy is more of a cult, than a religion.

And I also don't believe that most religions are "money making machines for those at the top." Some? Sure. But only a minority.

Most of them are well intentioned, if simply deluded as to the true nature of the Universe and our place in it. And on the existence of a personal and caring, note-taking, punishing (yet loving!) God.

But Scientology? Cult. Founded by a failed Sci-Fi writer. The only good thing I can say for them is that, with their idea of "engrams" and the removal thereof, they are sort of on the right track. Cognitive Psych Therapy really attempts to do pretty much the same thing, when you think about it. As both of them are primarily concerned with improving your reasoning abilities and getting rid of faulty and injurious thought processes. It's just that with the Scientology folks, they put all that wacky mythos background on why people have them. Instead of the REAL reason, which is that they simply learned maladaptive coping skills and became emotionally entrenched in the thinking cycle that entails, the Scientology nuts say that those bad thoughts were planted by Aliens! LOL.

Sorry for the discourse on Cognitive Therapy. I am in a very similar field to that so I get carried away sometimes. LOL

[zzzSnorlax]

Hmm if only we didn't afford special privileges and protections to religious organizations that are not available to non religious organizations maybe then it would not be so lucrative to invent scam variants....