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Oh look. "nozzferrahhtoos first law of internet forum posting" strikes again as predicted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
When I say the study shows awareness after death I am referring to the death that the study is talking about which is clinical death.
They study is. But the thread, and the news paper article you link dumped without qualification, were not. Which I merely explained at the time, and you got overly triggered.
But once you, and everyone on the thread in fact, understand that the study is talking about awareness BETWEEN clinical death and actual death............ then we are done here. My point is clear, even if why you are/were so triggered by it is not.
that means also not a believer in Hell and Paradise
..
Quote:
But can still be a believer in a religion, can't he? ..
no he can't , he think that he is a believer but he is wrong
the religion comes from the god
the god gives it to the messengers
the messengers tell us about the religion
that means the source of the religion is the god the creator
any thing not from the creator is not a religion
and according the creator teaching to be a believer you must believe in six things and they are
Belief in Allah
Belief in His Angels
Belief in His Messengers
Belief in His Books
Belief in the Last Day
Belief in Al-Qadar (Pre-Ordainment)
notice that Hell and Paradise are not part of the six pillars but his books are mentioned and they are in his books.
You have a very unusual definition of the word "proof" if you think the claim about a parting ocean is verified by a 23 second video that does not in fact mention the event AT ALL.
The video does not in fact mention the event AT ALL but the video mentioned by Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore who is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human,
Professor Keith L. Moore said
"It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'an about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God, or Allah."
The video mention the Quran and the Quran is the final Holy book from Allah
and the Quran is more than 600 pages and it more than 1400 years and in it there are knowledge that could not be mentioned by any human being at that time such as the human development inside the womb
and the Quran mentioned the fact of parting the sea
in other word the video mentioned the fact of parting the sea indirectly
in order to know the human development inside the womb,
science spend huge time of study and observing from the time of the seed drop to the time of the birth,
these phases of development is designed by Allah and Allah described them in the Quran for more than 1400 years ago
Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place,
Then We made the seed a clot,
then We made the clot a lump of flesh,
then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones,
then We clothed the bones with flesh,
then We caused it to grow into another creation,
so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. The Holy Quran 23.13:14
if a believer has a doubt about life after death then he is not a believer.
I think that is "truth_teller's" idea. I've never read that in the Bible. It must be an extension of the non-christian beliefs you've added to your Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller
I think that is because the source of the followed religion is not from the god or it was modified by man
and fake things added to it or deleted from it
And I think you aren't of a very strong faith because it relies on a "carrot or stick" approach to Christ. I do not concern myself with it because my faith is able to exist without expecting a "reward."
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller
it is very easy to filter all those 2999 gods by looking at each god product if there is any.
It's not easy to "filter" at all. I can say with full confidence that you simply haven't looked at all of those 2999 gods and have made your mind up---perhaps because you live in expectation of reward rather than the hope that is promised.
Quote:
Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Romans 5:2-5 NIV
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller
not every religious people are following the correct religion and even the correct one are not perfect.
I agree wholeheartedly--but until the ones following the "correct" religion are perfect, they are simply obnoxious with regard to stating they are the ONLY correct belief.
More than that, belittling others wins no one to Christ. That's why the entire NT has Jesus belittling no one to their face but the most religious people of his day. That's because religious people are always so cocksure that only THEIR beliefs are correct.
I don't believe in universalism, but at the same time I would not be disappointed if God decided to save everyone and put them in heaven. Too many who think Christianity is the only religion are like those that think the Muslim religion is the only one, rejoicing both in their inclusion and the exclusion of others because they have different beliefs. It is a common exclusionary and divisive religious exercise by those who are selfish.
It's a sad commentary on the sinfulness existing in people of religion rather than people of faith--who frequently resist the exclusionary attempts of their particular sect. People of faith, aren't happy that anyone is left out, and wish the fullness of God to be revealed to everyone and change the way they think. My God is big enough to use any method to see people as Jesus sees them---sinners in need of interaction with God. And if that is not enough, let them adopt the philosophy of Jesus. There is not one word in that Bible that says a "personal" relationship is necessary--that is another convenience of "religious thinking" to control people.
You want to see Jesus? Get your nose out of that Bible and look at the people around you. It's surprising how many can show glimpses of Christ regardless of their beliefs. I've been inspired even by atheists. If you haven't, then your god is too small and your eyes are closed--like those Pharisees and Sadducees Jesus condemned. Jesus saw a Samaritan, the Muslim of His day, and held him up as an example of real faith. Being unable to see beyond the doors of a church is not an example of faith.
I've never read that in the Bible. It must be an extension of the non-christian beliefs you've added to your Bible..
The Bible does not include the final holy book.
Quote:
It's not easy to "filter" at all. I can say with full confidence that you simply haven't looked at all of those 2999 gods and have made your mind up---perhaps because you live in expectation of reward rather than the hope that is promised. ..
it is easy to filter even if there are millions of them because the final holy book defined the holy books and holy scripts in addition to that the final Holy book Abrogated the previous holy books and mentioned that they have been tampered .
that means also not a believer in Hell and Paradise
..
no he can't , he think that he is a believer but he is wrong
the religion comes from the god
the god gives it to the messengers
the messengers tell us about the religion
that means the source of the religion is the god the creator
any thing not from the creator is not a religion
and according the creator teaching to be a believer you must believe in six things and they are
Belief in Allah
Belief in His Angels
Belief in His Messengers
Belief in His Books
Belief in the Last Day
Belief in Al-Qadar (Pre-Ordainment)
notice that Hell and Paradise are not part of the six pillars but his books are mentioned and they are in his books.
Well, this is pointless and off the topic of evidence for life after death. But the fact is that a religion doesn't have to have heaven or hell but can still be a religion, that any religion can be claimed to have been 'handed down' by the particular god, and certainly belief in the particular aspects of one religion does not make that religion any more special than any other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I think that is "truth_teller's" idea. I've never read that in the Bible. It must be an extension of the non-christian beliefs you've added to your Bible.
And I think you aren't of a very strong faith because it relies on a "carrot or stick" approach to Christ. I do not concern myself with it because my faith is able to exist without expecting a "reward."
It's not easy to "filter" at all. I can say with full confidence that you simply haven't looked at all of those 2999 gods and have made your mind up---perhaps because you live in expectation of reward rather than the hope that is promised.
Romans 5:2-5 NIV
I agree wholeheartedly--but until the ones following the "correct" religion are perfect, they are simply obnoxious with regard to stating they are the ONLY correct belief.
More than that, belittling others wins no one to Christ. That's why the entire NT has Jesus belittling no one to their face but the most religious people of his day. That's because religious people are always so cocksure that only THEIR beliefs are correct.
I don't believe in universalism, but at the same time I would not be disappointed if God decided to save everyone and put them in heaven. Too many who think Christianity is the only religion are like those that think the Muslim religion is the only one, rejoicing both in their inclusion and the exclusion of others because they have different beliefs. It is a common exclusionary and divisive religious exercise by those who are selfish.
It's a sad commentary on the sinfulness existing in people of religion rather than people of faith--who frequently resist the exclusionary attempts of their particular sect. People of faith, aren't happy that anyone is left out, and wish the fullness of God to be revealed to everyone and change the way they think. My God is big enough to use any method to see people as Jesus sees them---sinners in need of interaction with God. And if that is not enough, let them adopt the philosophy of Jesus. There is not one word in that Bible that says a "personal" relationship is necessary--that is another convenience of "religious thinking" to control people.
You want to see Jesus? Get your nose out of that Bible and look at the people around you. It's surprising how many can show glimpses of Christ regardless of their beliefs. I've been inspired even by atheists. If you haven't, then your god is too small and your eyes are closed--like those Pharisees and Sadducees Jesus condemned. Jesus saw a Samaritan, the Muslim of His day, and held him up as an example of real faith. Being unable to see beyond the doors of a church is not an example of faith.
I like that. Better than either Truth -tellers 'Science in the Q'uran' claims or my debunking of it, better to look around and see the best of your religion in the best behaviour of those of other religions - or none.
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