Jewish Professor Say Jesus & Moses Were Muslims! (Jerusalem, Vatican, mercy)

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Khalif

So by "We" you are referring to the atheists (non believers). Good! That rules out views of Jews, Christians and Muslims.

In that case do you, when talking about non believers, talk about atheists? Atheists who have read the Torah and the Qur'an but have rejected them both?

I can tell you what the Qur'an says about such people too.

(Khalif posted

"My following comment is based on what I have described above:

"I believe Jews who observe all the laws in the Torah will not go to hell."

Ok. If I missed that in your previous extensive posts, I apologize. But that's only Half the answer. I have also to ask about Christians. Because you can stretch a point for Jews, since the Quran has many of the same 'Rules' but Christianity clearly does not. No circumcision, No Kashrut/Halal food.

They worship the same god, based on their 'revelation' (which God for some reason adapted to suit them) and they do not accept the Quran as given by God. Do they, like the Jews, if they observe all the laws in their particular 'revelation', noit get sent to hell?

Please don't say that you can't speak for Allah as you have already said what you believe about Jews, based on your study and understanding.

And you don't need to tell what your views are about atheists, old chum. We can already make a good guess.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

(Khalif posted

"My following comment is based on what I have described above:

"I believe Jews who observe all the laws in the Torah will not go to hell."

Ok. If I missed that in your previous extensive posts, I apologize. But that's only Half the answer. I have also to ask about Christians. Because you can stretch a point for Jews, since the Quran has many of the same 'Rules' but Christianity clearly does not. No circumcision, No Kashrut/Halal food.

No need to apologize. This is just a discussion; not a fight. I had a feeling that you are either overlooking part of my posts or not understanding what I am stating.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

They worship the same god, based on their 'revelation' (which God for some reason adapted to suit them) and they do not accept the Quran as given by God. Do they, like the Jews, if they observe all the laws in their particular 'revelation', noit get sent to hell?

Jesus was praying to the same God that the Jews and we pray to. Jesus had said:

Mark 12:29
“The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord."

No Christian will tell you that they do not worship One God. This is the same basis of their belief as the basis of belief of Jews and Muslims. And this is why these religions are often called Abrahamic religions; because of belief in One God and keeping the commandment.

Matthew 19:17
“Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God. But if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the commandments.”

So revelation through Jesus was fundamentally the same in terms of One God and the law.

Matthew 5:17
“Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Jesus was telling Israelites that he hadn't come to destroy the law.

As for circumcision, Jesus himself was circumcised. He did not say that his followers should not be circumcised. And he did not change the dietary laws. The dietary laws of the early Christians were the same as the Jewish dietary laws. When they began to do differently, I am not sure (perhaps Paul had something to do with it??)

Whatever the case, Christian too are not stated in the Qur'an as "non-believers". They were the first people who had given shelter to the early followers of Muhammad when persecuted by the Meccan non-believers. In fact Muhammad had sent them to seek shelter with the Christians in Abyssinia (present Ethiopia). The Qur'an spoke highly of those Christians.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

Please don't say that you can't speak for Allah as you have already said what you believe about Jews, based on your study and understanding.

I still can't speak for Allah. I still can't say that the Jews are going to hell. And I still can't say that Christians are going to Hell. I believe Christians will not go to hell if they worship the One God and keep the commandments as Jesus had advised them. As for what the Qur'an says, I state it here for your information:

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

From this I gather that the Christians who believe in God and do good deeds will not go to hell.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

And you don't need to tell what your views are about atheists, old chum. We can already make a good guess.

And I won't give you anything from the Qur'an about atheists as you are used to making good guesses.

And if you can't make a guess about anything else, feel free to seek my help. I am always happy to help my fellow citizens.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

I hold out a bunch of pansies, snapdragons, wandering Jews and old man's beard (1), and you smack them away.

I didn't smack them away; you did.

By the way, I don't have old man's beard in my garden. It is best kept in the woodland as it grows very fast. I also don't have any Wandering Jew in my house nor any snapdragons in my garden. I did plant some pansies because wife wanted them but just one Surfinia and 4 Bacopa plants have practically buried them.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Khalif

I didn't smack them away; you did.

By the way, I don't have old man's beard in my garden. It is best kept in the woodland as it grows very fast. I also don't have any Wandering Jew in my house nor any snapdragons in my garden. I did plant some pansies because wife wanted them but just one Surfinia and 4 Bacopa plants have practically buried them.

Sounds like a nice garden. Mine is a constant battle with Buddelia - in my neck of the woods it is virtually an infestation.

Originally Posted by Khalif

No need to apologize. This is just a discussion; not a fight. I had a feeling that you are either overlooking part of my posts or not understanding what I am stating.

Jesus was praying to the same God that the Jews and we pray to. Jesus had said:

Mark 12:29
“The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord."

No Christian will tell you that they do not worship One God. This is the same basis of their belief as the basis of belief of Jews and Muslims. And this is why these religions are often called Abrahamic religions; because of belief in One God and keeping the commandment.

Matthew 19:17
“Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God. But if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the commandments.”

So revelation through Jesus was fundamentally the same in terms of One God and the law.

Matthew 5:17
“Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Jesus was telling Israelites that he hadn't come to destroy the law.

As for circumcision, Jesus himself was circumcised. He did not say that his followers should not be circumcised. And he did not change the dietary laws. The dietary laws of the early Christians were the same as the Jewish dietary laws. When they began to do differently, I am not sure (perhaps Paul had something to do with it??)

Whatever the case, Christian too are not stated in the Qur'an as "non-believers". They were the first people who had given shelter to the early followers of Muhammad when persecuted by the Meccan non-believers. In fact Muhammad had sent them to seek shelter with the Christians in Abyssinia (present Ethiopia). The Qur'an spoke highly of those Christians.

I still can't speak for Allah. I still can't say that the Jews are going to hell. And I still can't say that Christians are going to Hell. I believe Christians will not go to hell if they worship the One God and keep the commandments as Jesus had advised them. As for what the Qur'an says, I state it here for your information:

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

From this I gather that the Christians who believe in God and do good deeds will not go to hell.

And I won't give you anything from the Qur'an about atheists as you are used to making good guesses.

And if you can't make a guess about anything else, feel free to seek my help. I am always happy to help my fellow citizens.

None of that addresses the Other half of the question. You have already 'spoken for Allah' as regards the Jews. They will not be sent to hell even if they follow Judaism rather than the Quran. But how about Christians whe (even though Jesus was a Jew and acted like one in his day) they do not circumcize now nor observe clean food laws, and you will probably know that Jesus is shown as saying that clean food rites are not what matters.

You quoted (twice)

"There isn't even one statement made by me that says "Jews and Christians are doing it wrong" or that "they must do Muslim way". Instead I had quoted the following verses from the Qur'an:

[5.69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in God and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

Had it been that "Jews and Christians are doing it wrong", the Qur'an would have said "get rid of all the synagogues and churches as they are doing wrong in them". But instead God wants the synagogues and churches to carry on because His name is remembered much in them as well as in mosques."

Sonce you had previously said that not obeying "any rule" in the Quran is disobeying God, I needed clarification. It seems that I now have that, for Jews, and need if for Christians, including Mormons.

You may of course say that it is not as easy to give an opinion on as is Judaism. But then the implication would be, wouldn't it, that you couldn't say whether Christians will be sent to hell or not and if that isn't clear from the Quran, Allah could hardly have thought it necessary to make it clear.

So it looks, doesn't it, as though - given that once accepts it is the same god, that god will be content if one observes the Jewish or Christian religions and Mormon too, because the Quran may say that it is the last revelation, but clearly not believing that it is from God is vital if one if a Jew, Christian or Mormon, or one would be "Rejecting" it, rather than not believing it, and presumably that would send them to Hell, or what difference would it make?

Well at the end you do say that they will not go to hell for not following the Quran. Good deeds (more or less) being taken for granted.

If all that is agreed - and if you don't you are welcome to say so (and why) - then on your authority, I can tell the next Muslim who damns an unbeliever ir Perdition that he doesn't understand his own Holy Book, and refer them to you.

Now there's a point about good deed. Does that apply just to Christians or are Jews and Muslims going to be sent to Hell if the do Bad deeds? Or do muslims get to paradise no matter what they do, so long as they believe the Quran?

I'm always happy to guide your conclusions along even in ways that you hadn't considered before or it wouldn't have taken this long to get the 'not sent to Hel' conclusion out of you. But if you want to tell yourself that you are instructing me, feel free.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

Sounds like a nice garden. Mine is a constant battle with Buddelia - in my neck of the woods it is virtually an infestation.

Yes, it is! It looks like you have a taller variety of the Buddelia that you haven't been pruning for years. Prune it at the end of the frosty days; March if you are in London or the south, April if in the Midlands and May if in the north. It flowers on the new wood (branches).

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

None of that addresses the Other half of the question.

It did but not in the words you expected me to write. You should read my responses carefully. I give answers that are correct and according to the question asked.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

You have already 'spoken for Allah' as regards the Jews. They will not be sent to hell even if they follow Judaism rather than the Quran.

Are those my words or just your (mis)understanding? Read my statement again.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

But how about Christians whe (even though Jesus was a Jew and acted like one in his day) they do not circumcize now nor observe clean food laws, and you will probably know that Jesus is shown as saying that clean food rites are not what matters.

I don't think it was Jesus who said that the clean food rites are not what matters. Where did he say so?

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

You quoted (twice)

"There isn't even one statement made by me that says "Jews and Christians are doing it wrong" or that "they must do Muslim way". Instead I had quoted the following verses from the Qur'an:

[5.69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in God and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

Had it been that "Jews and Christians are doing it wrong", the Qur'an would have said "get rid of all the synagogues and churches as they are doing wrong in them". But instead God wants the synagogues and churches to carry on because His name is remembered much in them as well as in mosques."

Sonce you had previously said that not obeying "any rule" in the Quran is disobeying God, I needed clarification. It seems that I now have that, for Jews, and need if for Christians, including Mormons.

You may of course say that it is not as easy to give an opinion on as is Judaism. But then the implication would be, wouldn't it, that you couldn't say whether Christians will be sent to hell or not and if that isn't clear from the Quran, Allah could hardly have thought it necessary to make it clear.

So it looks, doesn't it, as though - given that once accepts it is the same god, that god will be content if one observes the Jewish or Christian religions and Mormon too, because the Quran may say that it is the last revelation, but clearly not believing that it is from God is vital if one if a Jew, Christian or Mormon, or one would be "Rejecting" it, rather than not believing it, and presumably that would send them to Hell, or what difference would it make?

Well at the end you do say that they will not go to hell for not following the Quran. Good deeds (more or less) being taken for granted.

If all that is agreed - and if you don't you are welcome to say so (and why) - then on your authority, I can tell the next Muslim who damns an unbeliever ir Perdition that he doesn't understand his own Holy Book, and refer them to you.

Before you do anything, please try to understand what is written in my posts. You seem to be confused as to what exactly I have been writing.
There is no point in referring any other Muslim to me. Just refer them to their Holy Book, the Qur'an. What I write here is according to the Qur'an.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

Now there's a point about good deed. Does that apply just to Christians or are Jews and Muslims going to be sent to Hell if the do Bad deeds? Or do muslims get to paradise no matter what they do, so long as they believe the Quran?

Just believing the Qur'an is not enough. It is believing and doing good deeds that is requirement. It is the same for all. The Torah says so, Jesus said so and so does the Qur'an. And I have already stated in my previous posts (that you did not read carefully) that even the Muslims (English dictionary ones) might go to hell if their deeds were bad/evil. In other words, no point in becoming English dictionary Muslim just to escape from hell. It is the good deeds that serve the purpose for which we were created. This too has been explained in my posts.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

I'm always happy to guide your conclusions along even in ways that you hadn't considered before or it wouldn't have taken this long to get the 'not sent to Hel' conclusion out of you.

It took me so long to make you understand because I didn't know I needed to do spoon-feeding. When I spoon-feed someone my posts become very long. Don't worry, I am conditioned to be patient.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

But if you want to tell yourself that you are instructing me, feel free.

I am only answering your questions.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Khalif

Yes, it is! It looks like you have a taller variety of the Buddelia that you haven't been pruning for years. Prune it at the end of the frosty days; March if you are in London or the south, April if in the Midlands and May if in the north. It flowers on the new wood (branches).

It did but not in the words you expected me to write. You should read my responses carefully. I give answers that are correct and according to the question asked.

Are those my words or just your (mis)understanding? Read my statement again.

I don't think it was Jesus who said that the clean food rites are not what matters. Where did he say so?

Before you do anything, please try to understand what is written in my posts. You seem to be confused as to what exactly I have been writing.
There is no point in referring any other Muslim to me. Just refer them to their Holy Book, the Qur'an. What I write here is according to the Qur'an.

Just believing the Qur'an is not enough. It is believing and doing good deeds that is requirement. It is the same for all. The Torah says so, Jesus said so and so does the Qur'an. And I have already stated in my previous posts (that you did not read carefully) that even the Muslims (English dictionary ones) might go to hell if their deeds were bad/evil. In other words, no point in becoming English dictionary Muslim just to escape from hell. It is the good deeds that serve the purpose for which we were created. This too has been explained in my posts.

It took me so long to make you understand because I didn't know I needed to do spoon-feeding. When I spoon-feed someone my posts become very long. Don't worry, I am conditioned to be patient.

I am only answering your questions.

This is why I had to ask a direct question, not just try to interpret the quotes you supplied.

You posted: "I believe Jews who observe all the laws in the Torah will not go to hell."

If this isn't saying that Allah will not send them to hell provided they behave well, worship him (As Abrahamic God) and observe the Torah they believe, and given that they don't believe the Quran is from God. I am quite sure that was what you seemed to be saying.

That's why I have to be direct about where this puts the Christians. The quote about them not needing to fear or weep on the last days seems clear, but you so often came back and asked where you said that and it wasn't what you meant, that I have to ask you to be clear.

If you say you don't know, then Why is it you can't get a clear message from the Quran and, as I say, doesn't that imply that they are also in the clear?

Jesus was supposedly explicit about clean food laws.


Matth 15.11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."

Mark 7.15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them."

This directly related (however those passages are interpreted) and the fact is that Christians do not observe clean food laws. That is surely not obeying the rule in the Quran, as is non -circumcision. The matter of good deeds is a red herring. I accept that one has to be a good person as well. You didn't say whether you thought Muslims that did bad deeds would go to hell.

What say you?

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

This is why I had to ask a direct question, not just try to interpret the quotes you supplied.

You posted: "I believe Jews who observe all the laws in the Torah will not go to hell."

If this isn't saying that Allah will not send them to hell provided they behave well, worship him (As Abrahamic God) and observe the Torah they believe, and given that they don't believe the Quran is from God. I am quite sure that was what you seemed to be saying.

That's why I have to be direct about where this puts the Christians. The quote about them not needing to fear or weep on the last days seems clear, but you so often came back and asked where you said that and it wasn't what you meant, that I have to ask you to be clear.

If you say you don't know, then Why is it you can't get a clear message from the Quran and, as I say, doesn't that imply that they are also in the clear?

Jesus was supposedly explicit about clean food laws.


Matth 15.11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."

Mark 7.15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them."

This directly related (however those passages are interpreted) and the fact is that Christians do not observe clean food laws. That is surely not obeying the rule in the Quran, as is non -circumcision.

The passages are misinterpreted. These passages are not about eating dirty food but eating food with hands not cleaned before eating food. Jesus is telling them that they are sticking to man-made rules but ignoring rules (commands) from God which are more important.

By the way, the Qur'an does not tell us to wash our hands before eating or circumcise our male babies. We still do them anyway.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

The matter of good deeds is a red herring. I accept that one has to be a good person as well. You didn't say whether you thought Muslims that did bad deeds would go to hell.

I believe there would be in hell a number of English dictionary Muslims who have done bad deeds. I am being consistent here.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

What say you?

I say you are discussing the subject you are not familiar with. You pretend to understand all about Abramnic commands but you do not understand them.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Khalif

The passages are misinterpreted. These passages are not about eating dirty food but eating food with hands not cleaned before eating food. Jesus is telling them that they are sticking to man-made rules but ignoring rules (commands) from God which are more important.

By the way, the Qur'an does not tell us to wash our hands before eating or circumcise our male babies. We still do them anyway.

I believe there would be in hell a number of English dictionary Muslims who have done bad deeds. I am being consistent here.

I say you are discussing the subject you are not familiar with. You pretend to understand all about Abramnic commands but you do not understand them.

I think you misunderstand the point. However you interpret the Gospel passages, they are interpreted to day as jesus saying that clean food laws are not important. There is a passage in Acts where God commands Peter to eat unclean foods and he is very reluctant to do so, being a Jew. But that is how Christianity went and is.

So. That is not obeying the rules on the Quran. And I don't need to have done a doctorate in the subject to know that, so your attempt to defelct the matter by saying I don't understand it is futile.

It is a straight question. While Jews, doing clean food and circumcision can be taken as really doing the rules of the Quran (not doing the Hajj is a later custom, not a Quranic command, I believe. But you can't stretch that point to the Christians. When they eschew two important commands, will they go to hel?

Your Quran quite suggests they won't. Jews, Sabians and Christians need not fear or weep on that day. Is that how you read it, or not? Or don't you know?

I note that you think some Muslims who have done bad deeds would be in Hell, while many observing Jews who do not believe the Quran is from Allah will be in Paradise. Thank you for that. I am content with your straightforward statement.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

I think you misunderstand the point. However you interpret the Gospel passages, they are interpreted to day as jesus saying that clean food laws are not important.

It is still an interpretation rather than Jesus actually saying so. He is saying (interpretation) that the rules, such as washing your hands before eating, are man-made and inferior to the divine laws. In other words, he is saying that what you say with your mouth is more likely to defile you than if if you eat with hands not washed. Wisdom in his words must be understood.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

There is a passage in Acts where God commands Peter to eat unclean foods and he is very reluctant to do so, being a Jew. But that is how Christianity went and is.

The previous 2 passages and the passage in Acts 10 are not related. The previous ones are about washing hands before eating and the latter about actual food in a vision which means something else described in the Acts later on about Jews and Gentiles.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

So. That is not obeying the rules on the Quran. And I don't need to have done a doctorate in the subject to know that, so your attempt to defelct the matter by saying I don't understand it is futile.

Then you shouldn't be boasting as if you know it all when you are not familiar with the subject.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

It is a straight question. While Jews, doing clean food and circumcision can be taken as really doing the rules of the Quran (not doing the Hajj is a later custom, not a Quranic command, I believe. But you can't stretch that point to the Christians. When they eschew two important commands, will they go to hel?

Circumcision is not a rule from the Qur'an but Hajj is. Hajj is for the believers of ALL the revelations since Abraham. According to the Qur'an, the first call for Hajj was made by Abraham. These days, Hajj is incumbent, once in their lifetime, on only the believers of ALL the revelations from God since the revelation to Abraham. The rest can't go for Hajj to Mecca.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

Your Quran quite suggests they won't. Jews, Sabians and Christians need not fear or weep on that day. Is that how you read it, or not? Or don't you know?

I believe as stated in the Qur'an. I have already quoted the verses.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

I note that you think some Muslims who have done bad deeds would be in Hell, while many observing Jews who do not believe the Quran is from Allah will be in Paradise. Thank you for that. I am content with your straightforward statement.

I think it's good that you understood me in the end even if it took you a long time to understand what I had been saying all along. And I still haven't condemned anyone to hell despite your persistent coaxing.

I do believe that good deeds by human beings are of paramount importance for the humanity to carry on. It's not red herrings as you had thought. A person's each good deed and each bad deed has a weight (1). One's salvation depends on the weight of good deeds minus the weight of bad deeds. If the result goes towards the weight of good deeds then one is fine otherwise in trouble on the day of judgment.

(1) Weighting of each deed is not the same. It varies from deed to deed. For example, Moses punching a man and killing him would weigh differently than you punching and killing an old man begging you for help. The same goes for disobeying a command. Satan (named Iblis in the Qur'an) disobeyed just one command and he was declared destined for hell. Adam disobeyed one command but he wasn't declared destined for hell. Weight of each disobeying was different even though it was one disobeying each time.

But of course this is not of much interest to you. I just thought you might ask me more questions.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Khalif

It is still an interpretation rather than Jesus actually saying so. He is saying (interpretation) that the rules, such as washing your hands before eating, are man-made and inferior to the divine laws. In other words, he is saying that what you say with your mouth is more likely to defile you than if if you eat with hands not washed. Wisdom in his words must be understood.

The previous 2 passages and the passage in Acts 10 are not related. The previous ones are about washing hands before eating and the latter about actual food in a vision which means something else described in the Acts later on about Jews and Gentiles.

Then you shouldn't be boasting as if you know it all when you are not familiar with the subject.

Circumcision is not a rule from the Qur'an but Hajj is. Hajj is for the believers of ALL the revelations since Abraham. According to the Qur'an, the first call for Hajj was made by Abraham. These days, Hajj is incumbent, once in their lifetime, on only the believers of ALL the revelations from God since the revelation to Abraham. The rest can't go for Hajj to Mecca.

I believe as stated in the Qur'an. I have already quoted the verses.

I think it's good that you understood me in the end even if it took you a long time to understand what I had been saying all along. And I still haven't condemned anyone to hell despite your persistent coaxing.

I do believe that good deeds by human beings are of paramount importance for the humanity to carry on. It's not red herrings as you had thought. A person's each good deed and each bad deed has a weight (1). One's salvation depends on the weight of good deeds minus the weight of bad deeds. If the result goes towards the weight of good deeds then one is fine otherwise in trouble on the day of judgment.

(1) Weighting of each deed is not the same. It varies from deed to deed. For example, Moses punching a man and killing him would weigh differently than you punching and killing an old man begging you for help. The same goes for disobeying a command. Satan (named Iblis in the Qur'an) disobeyed just one command and he was declared destined for hell. Adam disobeyed one command but he wasn't declared destined for hell. Weight of each disobeying was different even though it was one disobeying each time.

But of course this is not of much interest to you. I just thought you might ask me more questions.

You are still missing the point. It doesn't matter whether the Gospel doctrine is interpreted correctly or not - Christian dod not observe clean food rules or circumcision (not in the Quran - really? They why is it a Muslim requirement?(1) and neither they nor Jews observe the Hajj - which you say is in the Quran. That is very interesting.

You have already said the jews won't get sent to hell if they don't believe the Quran is from God, and if they observe clean food laws, they don't do the Hajj. According to you, that it disobeying a "Rule" in the Quran.

You saaid that disobeying any rule in the Quran is not carrying out God's command - bringing the wrong fruit in your analogy. So the Jews are not punished for bringing the wrong fruit. How about the Ghristians?

This -not the interpretation - is the question.

You will understand old chum, that it is pointless to argue about Interpretation of the gospels, because I don't believe they are a reliable record of what Jesus said anyway. The passages showing Jesus debunking clean food laws 'what goes in the mouth does not defile' were written by Christians to support their rejection of those rules.

When Christians 0 not believing the Quran is from God - but submitting in their way to the Abrahamic god, nevertheless (This, and not expertise in the Quran is the point) would on the basis of your quote that Jews Sabians and Christians will not fear or weep on 'that day' (doubtless judgement) not be sent to hell either. Good deeds are indeed a red -herring. This is about basid doctrines and the consequences of disregarding them. Once you have answered that point THEN we can understand the ameliorating effect of good deeds.

What is your view? Instruct me, if you will If you don't know one way or the other, what use is the Quran or your expertise in it?

(1) "And pilgrimage to the House is a duty unto God for mankind, for him who can find the way thither" (3:97)

That's what I call a passage much open to interpretation. But the hajj was apparently made an obligation by Muhammad, who made the first one. Anyway It is in the Quran as you say.

You are quite right. Circumcision is a matter of choice. It is not in the Quran. It is in the hadiths. The Quiran says that man was made perfect (and presumably woman, too)
though that doesn't stop us cutting hair or toenails. So that is neither here nor there.

I know it is derived from Abraham's commandment, but that didn't stop Christians finding ways to disregard it though commanded in the religion they used,
but has become pretty much an obligation in Islam, despite NOT being obligatory - that's a well -kept secret!