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I have heard this many times from Muslims as well as 'we are all born Muslim, but forget'.
I am wondering how those(Jesus, Moses etc) said the Shahada, when Muhammed wasn't even born yet. There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God.
This is a classic example of people not trying to understand that a baby does not say shahada but is born submitting God. S/he is born with command from God. As long as you obey God, you are a "muslim" or "musliman" to be precise.
It does in Berei**** Rabbah 38:13 you cited as "I will throw you into it, and the God you worship can save you from it."
38:13 never says that Abraham worshipped anything. Abraham was mocking Nimrod's worship so Nimrod says "whatever god you worship" but that was Nimrod's statement, not any claim that Abraham worshipped anything. The text reads כֵּיוָן שֶׁיָּרַד אַבְרָהָם לְכִבְשַׁן הָאֵשׁ וְנִצֹּל that Abraham was thrown in and was saved. No request on his part, no worship.
38:13 never says that Abraham worshipped anything. Abraham was mocking Nimrod's worship so Nimrod says "whatever god you worship" but that was Nimrod's statement, not any claim that Abraham worshipped anything. The text reads כֵּיוָן שֶׁיָּרַד אַבְרָהָם לְכִבְשַׁן הָאֵשׁ וְנִצֹּל that Abraham was thrown in and was saved. No request on his part, no worship.
OK. I am not going to argue about worshiping but I didn't make it up. I just stated what is stated in the English translation that I checked with:
This is a classic example of people not trying to understand that a baby does not say shahada but is born submitting God. S/he is born with command from God. As long as you obey God, you are a "muslim" or "musliman" to be precise.
Thank you.
This sort of confirms my question.
The Muslim philosopher Ibn Arabi said:
A Muslim is a person who has dedicated his worship exclusively to God...Islam means making one's religion and faith God's alone
Mussulman maybe?
The word muslim (Arabic: مسلم, IPA: [ˈmʊslɪm]; English: /ˈmʌzlɪm/, /ˈmʊzlɪm/, /ˈmʊslɪm/ or moslem/ˈmɒzləm/, /ˈmɒsləm/[25]) is the active participle of the same verb of which islām is a verbal noun, based on the triliteralS-L-M "to be whole, intact".[26][27] A female adherent is a muslima (Arabic: مسلمة) (also transliterated as "Muslimah"[28] ). The plural form in Arabic is muslimūn (مسلمون) or muslimīn (مسلمين), and its feminine equivalent is muslimāt (مسلمات). The Arabic form muslimun is the stem IV participle[note 2] of the triliteral S-L-M.
The ordinary word in English is "Muslim". It is sometimes transliterated as "Moslem", which is an older spelling.[citation needed] The word Mosalman (Persian: مسلمان, alternatively Mussalman) is a common equivalent for Muslim used in Central Asia. Until at least the mid-1960s, many English-language writers used the term Mohammedans or Mahometans.[29] Although such terms were not necessarily intended to be pejorative, Muslims argue that the terms are offensive because they allegedly imply that Muslims worship Muhammad rather than God.[30] Other obsolete terms include Muslimite[31] and Muslimist.[32] Musulmán/Mosalmán (Persian: مسلمان) is a synonym for Muslim and is modified from Arabic. It is the origin of the Spanish word musulmán, the (dated) GermanMuselmann, the French word musulman, the Polish words muzułmanin and muzułmański, the Portuguese word muçulmano, the Italian word mussulmano or musulmano, the Romanian word musulman and the Greek word μουσουλμάνος (all used for a Muslim).[33] In English it was sometimes spelled Mussulman and has become archaic in usage.
The Qur'an describes many prophets and messengers within Judaism and Christianity, and their respective followers, as Muslim: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Ishmael, and Jesus and his apostles are all considered to be Muslims in the Qur'an. The Qur'an states that these men were Muslims because they submitted to God, preached His message and upheld His values, which included praying, charity, fasting and pilgrimage. Thus, in Surah 3:52 of the Qur'an, Jesus' disciples tell him, "We believe in God; and you be our witness that we are Muslims (wa-shahad be anna muslimūn)." In Muslim belief, before the Qur'an, God had given the Tawrat (Torah, Old Testament) to Moses, the Zabur (Psalms) to David and the Injil (Gospel, New Testament) to Jesus, who are all considered important Muslim prophets.
now is year 2017 and the final messenger from Allah Mahammad was born in 570 and became a prophet in 610 and died in 632
and that is not 800 years ago.
The Jews and Christians were WAY after Abraham
O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)!
Why do you dispute about Ibrahim (Abraham),
while the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) were not revealed till after him? Have you then no sense?The holy Quran
all the messengers are from Allah
the source of Islam and Jews and Christianity is Allah
and the main message for all of them it believe in Allah the only god and to worship him alone and obey him ,
in other word to submit to him and that is Islam and in another word all the religion of Allah is Islam.
Say (O Muslims),
"We believe in Allah
and that which has been sent down to us
and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)],
and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'ÃŽsa (Jesus),
and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord.
We make no distinction between any of them,
and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)."The holy Quran
Jews were NOT "way after Abraham" - Abraham was one of the early Jewish prophets. Xtians came along way after. Abraham was a contemporaneous (to his time) Jew.
Mohammed came along even later than the xtians.
It's all sky-wizardry. None of it matters or makes a lick of sense.
Thank you.
This sort of confirms my question.
The Muslim philosopher Ibn Arabi said:
A Muslim is a person who has dedicated his worship exclusively to God...Islam means making one's religion and faith God's alone
The latter is done by obeying commands from God.
Judaism and Islam is linked to Abraham because he obeyed commands from God, and not because he had a Jewish mother or was Muhammadan or followed Torah or the Qur'an. The latter were revealed after Abraham had long gone.
The common denominator is "obeying commands from God" which is often shortened to "obeying God". The covenant of circumcision is the beginning of man's promise to obey God for His blessings (a two-way covenant). No obedience, no blessings, regardless of whether one calls himself a Jew or a Muslim.
"He cared about everyone and viewed himself not as an individual trying to perfect himself, but as the progenitor of a movement to bring God's existence into perfect clarity"
The focus is for the world to recognize God. NOT on what specific word is used, NOT which religion a person claims.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-24-2017 at 07:38 AM..
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