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Ah, the ol' blame game....'It's all God's fault...or it's God that saved us'.
Concepts, concepts about creation, existence and the Creator's position to it all.
Gets old that people think God is this or that...is responsible for this or that....is this
or that...does or doesn't do this or that.
All of that is intellectual, philosophical speculation...meaning nothing.
Does the term 'bigger picture here' mean anything? The blame game smacks of
the ant trying to figure out quantum physics.
It's fine to question, wonder, speculate...but to think one knows anything, then to blame
something or thank something one has no idea about is ... sorry...but, nonsensical.
You guys are smart here...you have got to see that..that you really have no idea what's going on;
the believers in God nor the atheists.
...from what I see, that is...
If I thought that God was playing favorites, causing suffering for some while blessing others, I wouldn’t believe God is love, either. And in that case, I’d have more peace of mind being an atheist.
Ah, the ol' blame game....'It's all God's fault...or it's God that saved us'.
Concepts, concepts about creation, existence and the Creator's position to it all.
Gets old that people think God is this or that...is responsible for this or that....is this
or that...does or doesn't do this or that.
All of that is intellectual, philosophical speculation...meaning nothing.
Does the term 'bigger picture here' mean anything? The blame game smacks of
the ant trying to figure out quantum physics.
It's fine to question, wonder, speculate...but to think one knows anything, then to blame
something or thank something one has no idea about is ... sorry...but, nonsensical.
You guys are smart here...you have got to see that..that you really have no idea what's going on;
the believers in God nor the atheists.
...from what I see, that is...
Say it again, Miss Hepburn. Just posted something along those lines yesterday in A&A.
If I thought that God was playing favorites, causing suffering for some while blessing others, I wouldn’t believe God is love, either. And in that case, I’d have more peace of mind being an atheist.
Blood sacrifice of animals was necessary in the Old Testament for Yahweh to forgive sins. This is one of the reasons why I don't believe in the Bible. Yahweh also wanted homosexuals and adulterers to be stoned to death during those times. To think that an all powerful god needs us humans to sacrifice innocent animals to forgive sins? How silly. I don't believe in Jesus either, but I love god. Here's the thing, the Bible says god is the same yesterday today and forever. So why the change from Old Testament to the New Testament and also we would think it barbaric if anyone in America or if the government decided to kill all the homosexuals, adulterers, or prostitutes yet christians and Jews worship a god who ordered the killing of homosexuals, the slaughter and genocide of the cannanites etc. the Bible is pretty twisted imo. Another passage of the Bible says Yahweh ordered the Israelites to kill the canaanites but keep the virgins for yourselves. Sick and twisted.
Blood sacrifice of animals was necessary in the Old Testament for Yahweh to forgive sins. This is one of the reasons why I don't believe in the Bible. Yahweh also wanted homosexuals and adulterers to be stoned to death during those times. To think that an all powerful god needs us humans to sacrifice innocent animals to forgive sins? How silly. I don't believe in Jesus either, but I love god. Here's the thing, the Bible says god is the same yesterday today and forever. So why the change from Old Testament to the New Testament and also we would think it barbaric if anyone in America or if the government decided to kill all the homosexuals, adulterers, or prostitutes yet christians and Jews worship a god who ordered the killing of homosexuals, the slaughter and genocide of the cannanites etc. the Bible is pretty twisted imo. Another passage of the Bible says Yahweh ordered the Israelites to kill the canaanites but keep the virgins for yourselves. Sick and twisted.
You sound like someone who, perhaps, was once caught in the web, but got loose. If that is the case, congrats.
Blood sacrifice of animals was necessary in the Old Testament for Yahweh to forgive sins. This is one of the reasons why I don't believe in the Bible. Yahweh also wanted homosexuals and adulterers to be stoned to death during those times. To think that an all powerful god needs us humans to sacrifice innocent animals to forgive sins? How silly. I don't believe in Jesus either, but I love god. Here's the thing, the Bible says god is the same yesterday today and forever. So why the change from Old Testament to the New Testament and also we would think it barbaric if anyone in America or if the government decided to kill all the homosexuals, adulterers, or prostitutes yet christians and Jews worship a god who ordered the killing of homosexuals, the slaughter and genocide of the cannanites etc. the Bible is pretty twisted imo. Another passage of the Bible says Yahweh ordered the Israelites to kill the canaanites but keep the virgins for yourselves. Sick and twisted.
If I thought that God was playing favorites, causing suffering for some while blessing others, I wouldn’t believe God is love, either. And in that case, I’d have more peace of mind being an atheist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
You sound like someone who, perhaps, was once caught in the web, but got loose. If that is the case, congrats.
I do not.
I can not even imagine a Being of such love and magnificence wanting
a goat sacrificed on this teeny, far off planet hidden amongst billions and billions of planets,
amongst billions of solar systems ...(What kind of sacrifice was it anyway?
People came to the market to buy animals just to sacrifice! Where's the sacrifice? Did they then eat the sacrifice or toss it? )
Another man-made concept?
Discuss...
Convince me that God needed a blood sacrifice...why would you personally think this...understanding that a verse from the Bible would convince no one.
Why do YOU think a magnificent, brilliant Spirit, unseen, maintaining billions of solar systems would need a goat killed - or a human. What sense does it even make?
And this is not to say I don't love and follow Jesus and His Father God.
I am not an atheist, by any means.
But this belief in blood letting to appease God is pretty 'out there'! Come on...
Miss Hepburn. I do appreciate your thinking. I hope you read this lengthy post. Just remember Christians have done a poor job of rebutting thoughts that the God of the Bible, particularly Hebrew Scriptures, is an angry God commanding bloody sacrifices.
We need to understand that for a modern day person in Western society our idea of animal sacrifices has been reinforced by the animal sacrifices we encounter in pagan cultures. Thus, when we open, the Book of Leviticus, we want to close it (at least that's how I felt initially). Add to that, that some (not all) non believers have no qualms pointing out the ickiness and grossness of animal sacrifices and making it seem as it was no different than pagan sacrifices because its coming from an angry sky god. I wonder how many though enjoy a juicy hamburger from a slaughtered animal or chickens horrifically packed into a single cage.
Pagan animal sacrifices involved the sacrifice of animals and even humans to gods that were capricious. One day the crops and rivers are flowing in abundance the next day the gods are angry and squashed humans by hurling lava and ash at the bewildered populace. And the more things went awry the more demands the religious class made of the people. That's the pagan model and that is what many think about when they think of animal sacrifices.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, however, was making a contrast between the surrounding pagan nations and their ideas of the role sacrifices played and the offspring of Abraham. He wasn't capricious.He wanted them to appreciate the value and sacredness of life and death as represented by blood. Just one example, and this is just one example of the contrast...The Canaanites had a ritual wherein they would sacrifice the goat and then boil the baby goat in the mothers milk. It showed a lack of respect for life and death. God put prohibitions on this practice.
Also, If they would abide by his rules he would, in exchange, protect and provide them with an abundance of food, security and peace. In other words not only provide for them spiritually but physically as well. Sacrifices were, in part, a reminder to his chosen people that they voluntarily entered into such a contract with him. They were supposed to represent him so that the surrounding nations would say" Gee wizz there must be more to this God YHWH." It also taught them that they were sinners and needed a more durable means of redemption. Sacrifices were a symbolic "bridge" between the holy and the corrupted. In sum, it was God's way of indicating to his people that he wanted to interact with them and save them and love them.
Many times though the ancient Jews rebelled and as Scripture states they even "pained the Holy One of Israel" by their conduct. He's not a God that demanded blood sacrifices just for the sake of having blood sprinkled around the altar. There were many times as recorded in the Bible that the sacrifices sickened him. Why? because of the heart condition of the people. It had become a ritual much like the surrounding pagan nations.
The Bible doesn't say who started the practice of animal sacrifices. I'm speculating at this point but it's not a far fetched idea that God looked at the existing ritual of sacrificing grains and animals and co-opted it in a way to teach his people about sin and redemption and the sacredness of life. We know that early on Cain and Able were doing it. They both offered sacrifices but only Able's was acceptable. Why? its not because his was more bloody or gross but because Able's sacrifice was sincere and genuine. Able got it. Cain did not and many today don't understand.
Miss Hepburn. I do appreciate your thinking. I hope you read this lengthy post. Just remember Christians have done a poor job of rebutting thoughts that the God of the Bible, particularly Hebrew Scriptures, is an angry God commanding bloody sacrifices.
We need to understand that for a modern day person in Western society our idea of animal sacrifices has been reinforced by the animal sacrifices we encounter in pagan cultures. Thus, when we open, the Book of Leviticus, we want to close it (at least that's how I felt initially). Add to that, that some (not all) non believers have no qualms pointing out the ickiness and grossness of animal sacrifices and making it seem as it was no different than pagan sacrifices because its coming from an angry sky god. I wonder how many though enjoy a juicy hamburger from a slaughtered animal or chickens horrifically packed into a single cage.
Pagan animal sacrifices involved the sacrifice of animals and even humans to gods that were capricious. One day the crops and rivers are flowing in abundance the next day the gods are angry and squashed humans by hurling lava and ash at the bewildered populace. And the more things went awry the more demands the religious class made of the people. That's the pagan model and that is what many think about when they think of animal sacrifices.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, however, was making a contrast between the surrounding pagan nations and their ideas of the role sacrifices played and the offspring of Abraham. He wasn't capricious.He wanted them to appreciate the value and sacredness of life and death as represented by blood. Just one example, and this is just one example of the contrast...The Canaanites had a ritual wherein they would sacrifice the goat and then boil the baby goat in the mothers milk. It showed a lack of respect for life and death. God put prohibitions on this practice.
Also, If they would abide by his rules he would, in exchange, protect and provide them with an abundance of food, security and peace. In other words not only provide for them spiritually but physically as well. Sacrifices were, in part, a reminder to his chosen people that they voluntarily entered into such a contract with him. They were supposed to represent him so that the surrounding nations would say" Gee wizz there must be more to this God YHWH." It also taught them that they were sinners and needed a more durable means of redemption. Sacrifices were a symbolic "bridge" between the holy and the corrupted. In sum, it was God's way of indicating to his people that he wanted to interact with them and save them and love them.
Many times though the ancient Jews rebelled and as Scripture states they even "pained the Holy One of Israel" by their conduct. He's not a God that demanded blood sacrifices just for the sake of having blood sprinkled around the altar. There were many times as recorded in the Bible that the sacrifices sickened him. Why? because of the heart condition of the people. It had become a ritual much like the surrounding pagan nations.
The Bible doesn't say who started the practice of animal sacrifices. I'm speculating at this point but it's not a far fetched idea that God looked at the existing ritual of sacrificing grains and animals and co-opted it in a way to teach his people about sin and redemption and the sacredness of life. We know that early on Cain and Able were doing it. They both offered sacrifices but only Able's was acceptable. Why? its not because his was more bloody or gross but because Able's sacrifice was sincere and genuine. Able got it. Cain did not and many today don't understand.
::Sigh:: I weep for all those who accept the barbaric notion of a blood sacrifice to appease a wrathful God! It indicates very little spiritual development of the loving Spirit we must achieve to be born again as Spirit upon our death.
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