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Miss Hepburn. I do appreciate your thinking. I hope you read this lengthy post. Just remember Christians have done a poor job of rebutting thoughts that the God of the Bible, particularly Hebrew Scriptures, is an angry God commanding bloody sacrifices.
We need to understand that for a modern day person in Western society our idea of animal sacrifices has been reinforced by the animal sacrifices we encounter in pagan cultures. Thus, when we open, the Book of Leviticus, we want to close it (at least that's how I felt initially). Add to that, that some (not all) non believers have no qualms pointing out the ickiness and grossness of animal sacrifices and making it seem as it was no different than pagan sacrifices because its coming from an angry sky god. I wonder how many though enjoy a juicy hamburger from a slaughtered animal or chickens horrifically packed into a single cage.
Pagan animal sacrifices involved the sacrifice of animals and even humans to gods that were capricious. One day the crops and rivers are flowing in abundance the next day the gods are angry and squashed humans by hurling lava and ash at the bewildered populace. And the more things went awry the more demands the religious class made of the people. That's the pagan model and that is what many think about when they think of animal sacrifices.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, however, was making a contrast between the surrounding pagan nations and their ideas of the role sacrifices played and the offspring of Abraham. He wasn't capricious.He wanted them to appreciate the value and sacredness of life and death as represented by blood. Just one example, and this is just one example of the contrast...The Canaanites had a ritual wherein they would sacrifice the goat and then boil the baby goat in the mothers milk. It showed a lack of respect for life and death. God put prohibitions on this practice.
Also, If they would abide by his rules he would, in exchange, protect and provide them with an abundance of food, security and peace. In other words not only provide for them spiritually but physically as well. Sacrifices were, in part, a reminder to his chosen people that they voluntarily entered into such a contract with him. They were supposed to represent him so that the surrounding nations would say" Gee wizz there must be more to this God YHWH." It also taught them that they were sinners and needed a more durable means of redemption. Sacrifices were a symbolic "bridge" between the holy and the corrupted. In sum, it was God's way of indicating to his people that he wanted to interact with them and save them and love them.
Many times though the ancient Jews rebelled and as Scripture states they even "pained the Holy One of Israel" by their conduct. He's not a God that demanded blood sacrifices just for the sake of having blood sprinkled around the altar. There were many times as recorded in the Bible that the sacrifices sickened him. Why? because of the heart condition of the people. It had become a ritual much like the surrounding pagan nations.
The Bible doesn't say who started the practice of animal sacrifices. I'm speculating at this point but it's not a far fetched idea that God looked at the existing ritual of sacrificing grains and animals and co-opted it in a way to teach his people about sin and redemption and the sacredness of life. We know that early on Cain and Able were doing it. They both offered sacrifices but only Able's was acceptable. Why? its not because his was more bloody or gross but because Able's sacrifice was sincere and genuine. Able got it. Cain did not and many today don't understand.
So a pagan god who would allow feast and famine is capricious, but your one and only god who allows feast and famine is not capricious?
The rest of your post is just explaining what your god allegedly thinks. The question is, how do you know this?
I do not.
I can not even imagine a Being of such love and magnificence wanting
a goat sacrificed on this teeny, far off planet hidden amongst billions and billions of planets,
amongst billions of solar systems ...(What kind of sacrifice was it anyway?
People came to the market to buy animals just to sacrifice! Where's the sacrifice? Did they then eat the sacrifice or toss it? )
Another man-made concept?
Discuss...
Convince me that God needed a blood sacrifice...why would you personally think this...understanding that a verse from the Bible would convince no one.
Why do YOU think a magnificent, brilliant Spirit, unseen, maintaining billions of solar systems would need a goat killed - or a human. What sense does it even make?
And this is not to say I don't love and follow Jesus and His Father God.
I am not an atheist, by any means.
But this belief in blood letting to appease God is pretty 'out there'! Come on...
Ancient people believed that God/the gods, who controlled the destiny of humans and were responsible for good times or calamities, expected to be worshiped and adored through various kinds of rituals, including sacrifices. What greater sacrifice could one make than offering the death of something very important to them? There is a massive difference between the things that ancient people imagined to be true, and the things modern people have learned really are true. Certain modern people simply say "thank you" to God/the gods every day. Other people have stopped subscribing to ancient superstitious belief in God/the gods altogether.
I do not.
I can not even imagine a Being of such love and magnificence wanting
a goat sacrificed on this teeny, far off planet hidden amongst billions and billions of planets,
amongst billions of solar systems ...(What kind of sacrifice was it anyway?
People came to the market to buy animals just to sacrifice! Where's the sacrifice? Did they then eat the sacrifice or toss it? )
Another man-made concept?
Discuss...
Convince me that God needed a blood sacrifice...why would you personally think this...understanding that a verse from the Bible would convince no one.
Why do YOU think a magnificent, brilliant Spirit, unseen, maintaining billions of solar systems would need a goat killed - or a human. What sense does it even make?
And this is not to say I don't love and follow Jesus and His Father God.
I am not an atheist, by any means.
But this belief in blood letting to appease God is pretty 'out there'! Come on...
We don't know why blood sacrifice was practiced in many different cultures. I think there were probably reasons, related to how magic works, which most modern societies have forgotten.
You conceive of God as infinitely loving, as an ultimate God. But I think there are an infinite number of gods, and there is no reason to think they are all infinitely loving. In Hinduism, for example, there are gods and goddesses who are destroyers (destruction is just as necessary as creation).
(The ancient Hebrews gave sacrifices to their God, Yahweh. They did NOT think He was the only God, at least not at the beginning of the bible. Later on, He gets promoted to being the ultimate God, and everyone else's God is called fake. But I think they just wanted to think their god was the best.)
And in Christianity, which began as a form of Judaism, Jesus is the ultimate blood sacrifice.
Some people think, and I agree, that blood has magical properties, and it can convey the prayers of the society to its gods. So that may be the reason for blood sacrifice.
The Jewish God never required people to sacrifice their first born son. This implies that other neighboring religions did require it. Sacrificing your first born son is a big deal, and shows commitment to your god. There would be a lot of emotion involved, so maybe those sacrifices were especially powerful.
The most important thing to remember about blood sacrifice, IMO, is that WE DO NOT KNOW why it was practiced by so many different societies.
Now in modern times, we like to keep the loving aspects of religion and discard everything we find unpleasant. But who knows, maybe the gods are angry at us for ignoring them. I think so.
We don't know why blood sacrifice was practiced in many different cultures. I think there were probably reasons, related to how magic works, which most modern societies have forgotten.
You conceive of God as infinitely loving, as an ultimate God. But I think there are an infinite number of gods, and there is no reason to think they are all infinitely loving. In Hinduism, for example, there are gods and goddesses who are destroyers (destruction is just as necessary as creation).
(The ancient Hebrews gave sacrifices to their God, Yahweh. They did NOT think He was the only God, at least not at the beginning of the bible. Later on, He gets promoted to being the ultimate God, and everyone else's God is called fake. But I think they just wanted to think their god was the best.)
And in Christianity, which began as a form of Judaism, Jesus is the ultimate blood sacrifice.
Some people think, and I agree, that blood has magical properties, and it can convey the prayers of the society to its gods. So that may be the reason for blood sacrifice.
The Jewish God never required people to sacrifice their first born son. This implies that other neighboring religions did require it. Sacrificing your first born son is a big deal, and shows commitment to your god. There would be a lot of emotion involved, so maybe those sacrifices were especially powerful.
The most important thing to remember about blood sacrifice, IMO, is that WE DO NOT KNOW why it was practiced by so many different societies.
Now in modern times, we like to keep the loving aspects of religion and discard everything we find unpleasant. But who knows, maybe the gods are angry at us for ignoring them. I think so.
Thanks for your input, Good4 nothin...hysterical name..
In modern times rt here on this forum it seems many have not discarded unpleasant aspects of God.
I actually don't care why barbaric people came up with throwing virgins in volcanos or killing goats was what would appease a god...myself.
The gods of Hinduism that are destroyers, Kali...well, it is more complicated than than randomly destroying...if someone wanted to google them to find out the diff layers ans aspects ...it is part of creation that is necessary...haha...like rust !
God tells us the fact that he never wanted sacrifices at all, the law is what Israel chose when they chose the work of their own hands by turning to another lover and thereby wanting to produce their own child and God showed them the only way they could do it, but this way was impossible.
Moses came down that mountain about to impregnate all of Israel through a marriage and consummation and they committed adultery against God.
Moses had not come down with a Temple design or a design for an ark of the covenant because there was no need for an ark of the covenant, there was only the need after they chose that Golden calf..........What God had for them was not the laws of Moses at all, he only gave them instructions on trying to raise their own righteous child when God was about to make their bodies birth a righteous child, and they chose themselves.
Thanks for your input, Good4 nothin...hysterical name..
In modern times rt here on this forum it seems many have not discarded unpleasant aspects of God. I actually don't care why barbaric people came up with throwing virgins in volcanos or killing goats was what would appease a god...myself.
IMO, no decent loving and common sense person would even entertain a "why" for such atrocities. They are barbaric atrocities and have no justification.
IMO, no decent loving and common sense person would even entertain a "why" for such atrocities. They are barbaric atrocities and have no justification.
From our modern perspective, we don't understand why people did those things. We don't practice sacrifice, and no one can tell us why it was practiced in so many unrelated cultures.
The modern perspective denies magic -- the power of words, the ability of water and liquids to contain information. Modern science denies the reality of anything it can't understand.
From our modern perspective, we don't understand why people did those things. We don't practice sacrifice, and no one can tell us why it was practiced in so many unrelated cultures.
The modern perspective denies magic -- the power of words, the ability of water and liquids to contain information. Modern science denies the reality of anything it can't understand.
What do you mean by that?
I think I have a fair idea why people did (and still do?) those things. I don't have the ability to express my thoughts so I won't attempt to go there.
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