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.... do you want to apply your own logic of OP on Jesus being put on the cross? - It undermines the entire Christian doctrine because the entire concept is based on a sacrifice - which means you are perhaps not a Christian anymore. IMO.
MY logic?
Here were people lost in their ideas, concepts and limitations.
In order to get through to them ...God sent them a sacrifice that they could relate to ...
Ah, God sent a blood sacrifice...tra la la la ...now we are saved in some way.
I have not been a Christian since Feb 2010.
We have always been saved...Heaven has always been open to us....the Garden
was just a story made up. We were never kicked out of any Kingdom, ever.
No blood sacrifice was EVER needed for anything.
There.
Here were people lost in their ideas, concepts and limitations.
In order to get through to them ...God sent them a sacrifice that they could relate to ...
Ah, God sent a blood sacrifice...tra la la la ...now we are saved in some way.
I have not been a Christian since Feb 2010.
We have always been saved...Heaven has always been open to us....the Garden
was just a story made up. We were never kicked out of any Kingdom, ever.
No blood sacrifice was EVER needed for anything.
There.
I am of the same opinion when you say no blood sacrifice was ever needed and heaven is open to all. However if Adam was not sent to earth then what are we doing here? Where we came from and where do we go from here?
What’s the purpose of our lives and where do you fit Jesus (whom you love) in the puzzle ?
Very interesting
That reminds me of Rod Taylor in the future, in 'Time Machine'...the Morlocks sounding
a whistle and without question the blonde youth march to their deaths.
i say seeing is believing unless you want to live in a fantasy world like a child...which I
must say is rather comfy.....makes me not want to rock anyone's boat
because they are all so comfy in their dreamy sleepy beliefs. ..WHICH the ONLY one I am talking about is that our Father would EVER want blood to be satisfied with us in any way. That is preposterous.
We (goddless bastards) must respect peoples' right to believe what they like. The aim is to provide or bring about a non - religious society where anyone can believe what they like (or not) and say so and argue it without being locked up, like in some Muslim countries.
I don't believe that some believers that battle Unbelievers here realise what it would be like if the loudest and most influential Christians in America took the control they so desperately want. They think: "I'm a god -believer - I'll be ok. Just those Pesky loudmouth atheists will be locked up or deported."
Well, regardless of the method of the blood sacrifice, it's quite apparent that the Hebrews performed these horrific acts of murder on a somewhat regular basis.
The key is in the Abraham and Isaac story whereby Abraham is commanded to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice to God.
Perhaps THE most important thing to take away from that story is how Abraham simply agreed to murder his own son ... and he did so without question, without emotion, and without protest. Any father who loved his son would have begged and pleaded with God to "take me instead and let my boy live!" or something similar.
But if human blood sacrifices were not run-of-the-mill in Hebrew religious practices, why did Abraham take this command so casually, so matter-of-factly?
The almost flippant way in which Abraham agreed to sacrifice Isaac shows without doubt that human blood sacrifices were just a normal part of life; Abraham saw nothing at all unusal in God's command.
If human blood sacrifices were uncommon or unheard-of, then Abraham should have been wondering why, all of the sudden, Yahweh is acting out of character -- perhaps going as far as wondering if this wasn't a trick by Ol' Scratch.
Instead, he just picked up his knife, got his friends together, lied to Isaac to lure him to the sacrifical site, and off they went -- without a single question being raised. You don't just casually saunter off with your son to murder him unless you're a complete sociopath/psychopath OR your God frequently demands these sorts of sacrifices and Abraham was so desensitized to human blood sacrifices that it no longer bothered him.
Of course, the ultimate expression of human blood sacrifices is God needing to crucify Jesus in order to forgive humanity for all of our sins ... up to that point, I guess.
Naturally, most Christians like to believe that their Biblegod Yahweh is the literal wellspring of goodness, love, and morality when the Bible itself proves without question that nothing could be further from the truth.
Yahweh is a tribalistic wargod invented by the Hebrews to both justify aggressive warfare in the form of genocidal landgrabs in the region of Palestine, and to form a cultural identity and create unity among the tribe of Israel. BUT Yahweh was a savage and primitive god -- like all gods were in those days.
Modern Christians simply superimposed their desire for a good, just, fair, and loving god over the old, savage, primitive personna of Yahweh -- attempting to change God's character by introducing Jesus who does at least try to pass himself off as good.
The reason why I say "pass himself off" is because there is still the problem of the infamous "hellthreat" that Jesus bandies about in the New Testament -- which did not exist in the Old Testament. Now, suddenly, one can find himself being tortured forever if you don't immediately join the Christ cult, give all your possessions to the poor, and then learn to hate your family.
(And once the poor receives all of those possessions, they are no longer poor ... thus requiring THEM to give away all the stuff they just got to different poor people ... and then THEY have to give their stuff away, and on and on ... until one singular person somehow ends up owning ALL of the possessions with no one left to give them to. I guess that person can only hope a camel passes through the eye of a needle before Judgment Day ... or else!)
Lol I love the image of everyone having to give all their possessions back to the dude who gave them all to him. Of course, I argue that 'the Poor' that you were supposed to give all your possessions to was....guess....the 'Meek'...the 'Saints'....the Elect....(rumbled it yet?) yep - the church. That passage is not about helping the people who really need help, it is about making the Church leaders rich. Always was.
...what are we doing here?
Where we came from and where do we go from here? What’s the purpose of our lives and where do you fit Jesus (whom you love) in the puzzle ?
Very interesting
It's so nice not to be posting in the Christian section so this may be more accepted here...Christians are so rigid in their thinking...everything is in a dogmatic box, their way or the highway (to hell, lol)), in my opinion. You ask why we are here...first a person has to understand there is nothing that exists that is not because of 'Him', Who has no gender.
This is all a stage, an Epic Play, a movie, full of tragedy and triumphs...but the thing is this...the audience is Him, the stage is Him, the seats are Him, we are Him, the projector is Him, the light beam is Him, the film is Him, the screen is Him, the dust particles in the light beam are Him.
All there is is this One Being. The One Cosmic Shape Shifter...One, morphing into what appears to be
many; many indiviidualized beings and things...all held together and existing because of Him...His thought, His power, His love...His dream. Soon we could talk about what quantum physics has found.
All there is is this One. And this One is Love. BUT Love must love...but before Creation?... there is no one to love.
Meher Baba says it this way, tho I personally have been shown this and more, by sheer Grace...well, maybe my 45 years of meditation helped, LOL, sitting many times 3-6 hours a sitting! Hahahaha, that may have had a bit to do with it . but, I don't think so...I just laid the ground work...or rather He did. This is precisely why we are here:
God is love. And Love must love. And to love there must be a Beloved.
But since God is Existence infinite and eternal there is no one for Him to love but Himself.
And in order to love Himself, He must imagine Himself as the Beloved whom He
as the lover imagines He loves.
Beloved and lover implies separation.
And separation creates longing; and longing causes search.
And the wider and the more intense the search, the greater the separation and the more terrible the longing.
When longing is at it's most intense, separation is complete, and the purpose of separation, which was that love might experience itself as lover and Beloved,
is fulfilled; and union follows.
And when union is attained, the lover knows that he himself was all along the Beloved, whom he loved and desired union with;
and that all the impossible situations that he overcame were obstacles which he himself had placed in the path to himself.
To attain union is so impossibly difficult because it is impossible to become what you already are!
Union is nothing other than knowledge of oneself as the Only One.
Shirina: Naturally, most Christians like to believe that their Biblegod Yahweh is the literal wellspring of goodness, love, and morality when the Bible itself proves without question that nothing could be further from the truth.
Yahweh is a tribalistic wargod invented by the Hebrews to both justify aggressive warfare in the form of genocidal landgrabs in the region of Palestine, and to form a cultural identity and create unity among the tribe of Israel. BUT Yahweh was a savage and primitive god -- like all gods were in those days.
God has no bloodlust, btw. The writers were (albeit, part of human development) at the early stages when the mind was savage and barbaric...think of Braveheart and the horrific, one on one battles...and that was 1000s of years LATER!
Their lives were filled with revenge and defending their own..so, of course, they thought God
was like that ...punishing, angry, jealous, murderous...oh my gosh!
God has no bloodlust, btw. The writers were (albeit, part of human development) at the early stages when the mind was savage and barbaric...think of Braveheart and the horrific, one on one battles...and that was 1000s of years LATER!
Their lives were filled with revenge and defending their own..so, of course, they thought God
was like that ...punishing, angry, jealous, murderous...oh my gosh!
...where do you fit Jesus (whom you love) in the puzzle ?
Me? He's just like you or me...just Awakened...my very advanced, love-filled brother;❤️
a humble servant that was always pointing to The Father.
We were stuck, blind, deluded, ignorant youngsters in our early development...why, we thought
water was water! Nope,
just looks like water ...we thought sick was sick, Nope, with just thought
you can heal people that aren't even near you!
We thought the physical was real, 'Nope, all made of dreamstuff, watch me dematerialize...just as I changed the atoms of water to appear as wine.'
He came to wake us up to Reality...that this place is not what it seems...the East calls it Illusion...
It's a pretty darn good one, right?
Otherwise they would call it 'The Pretty Bad Illusion'. LOL
But now we know that our bodies are 99.99999% empty space...we now know a table is not a table...
just atoms looking like a table. (Back to the Great Shape Shifter, similar to the 2 hour pilot of
Star Trek The Next Gen...'Encounter at Farpoint', just think it and it materializes!)
What a guy! So full of love, he did only what the Father wanted...'Go help those people I created as
individualized beings! Do whatever to open up their minds to release them
from their concepts,
to show them they can have the whole enchilada...Heaven that is within them.
They believe in sacrifice? OK, put yourself out there for them so they understand....
see ya back here later.'
What a soul ! And we're headed in the same direction of waking up...I know I am!
I'm sorry.
Created what? Them who?
Are you being snarky with the 'YOUR god'? I can't tell.
Cuz I don't respond well to snarky....
Wait, to speed this up..you may not post till tomorrow...This Creator created
people with their own minds to decide and make choices...part of that 'in His image'
is that we have the power to create anything we want...we have so much power we
can make ourselves miserable!
We have the power to block all the beauty around us and only see ugliness and imagine anything into being.
We are pure, beautiful souls...even you, even those in 4000BC...it's what
they or we make of things.
Did this creator make us stupid? Yup...and that's why a baby will crawl into oncoming traffic. When older will play with matches and burn a house down.
Oooo, are you going to say, 'Bad Creator, bad bad Creator'? You can.
Afterall He WAS the one that made avocado pits that big...and porcupines
are ok..but gee whiz, really?
Last edited by Miss Hepburn; 09-08-2018 at 08:32 AM..
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Lol I love the image of everyone having to give all their possessions back to the dude who gave them all to him. Of course, I argue that 'the Poor' that you were supposed to give all your possessions to was....guess....the 'Meek'...the 'Saints'....the Elect....(rumbled it yet?) yep - the church. That passage is not about helping the people who really need help, it is about making the Church leaders rich. Always was.
but, I don't think so...I just laid the ground work...or rather He did.
