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Old 10-15-2018, 10:56 PM
 
8,226 posts, read 3,421,135 times
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Jesus is almost as popular as the Beatles were in the 1960s, and that is saying something. Jesus is loved all over the world.

But why? Is it because his teachings are amazing and will transform your life? Is it because of his great wisdom and profound thoughts? Did he bring new insights to humanity?

I don't think that is why.

I appreciate Jesus and I value the ideas he expressed. I don't consider myself a Christian, but I definitely sympathize with the basic ideas -- the importance of faith in God, the need for salvation, etc.

However, I have always been interested in comparative religion, and I don't think what Jesus taught was really special or unique. I think there have been many Jesuses in all times and places. I think he was a sort of shaman or prophet, a mystic who was able to communicate with the Father God.

I guess Jesus had maybe thousands of followers among the Jews. He never tried to teach any non-Jews, did not travel to other countries. He would have been forgotten a while after he died.

However, the pharisee Saul had a vision that convinced him Jesus was something special. Saul became Paul, the founder of the Christian church. He traveled to Greece (and I forget where else) and made converts.

The Christians were hated and persecuted by the Romans, but then one Roman emperor decided the Christian God would help him win wars, so the Roman Empire became Christian. The Romans conquered Europe, and forced everyone to be Christian.

Rome fell, Europe rose. There were many European colonies, including the ones in America. Native people were converted to Christianity.

The USA became a great world power. The USA is, and always was, predominately Christian.

The greatest world power is Christian -- Christianity must be a powerful religion.

So that's how a local shaman/prophet became almost as famous as the Beatles in the 1960s.

I am NOT trying to minimize Christianity and all it stands for. But the things Jesus said were probably said by many others. And maybe they were said better by others.

Jesus didn't want to be crucified, didn't know ahead of time that was his fate, was not intending to be the world's blood sacrifice.

Jesus didn't come back to life after 3 days. At least we have no reliable reason for thinking that he did.

Jesus wasn't the biological son of the Jewish God. He called God his Father, because that's what everyone called the Jewish God, and we still do.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:07 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,857,175 times
Reputation: 2881
Many of the Jesus teachings were being offered by The Buddha some 500 years before the Christian god-man was invented.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:49 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,087,421 times
Reputation: 2410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Jesus is almost as popular as the Beatles were in the 1960s, and that is saying something. Jesus is loved all over the world.

But why? Is it because his teachings are amazing and will transform your life? Is it because of his great wisdom and profound thoughts? Did he bring new insights to humanity?

I don't think that is why.

I appreciate Jesus and I value the ideas he expressed. I don't consider myself a Christian, but I definitely sympathize with the basic ideas -- the importance of faith in God, the need for salvation, etc.

However, I have always been interested in comparative religion, and I don't think what Jesus taught was really special or unique. I think there have been many Jesuses in all times and places. I think he was a sort of shaman or prophet, a mystic who was able to communicate with the Father God.

I guess Jesus had maybe thousands of followers among the Jews. He never tried to teach any non-Jews, did not travel to other countries. He would have been forgotten a while after he died.

However, the pharisee Saul had a vision that convinced him Jesus was something special. Saul became Paul, the founder of the Christian church. He traveled to Greece (and I forget where else) and made converts.

The Christians were hated and persecuted by the Romans, but then one Roman emperor decided the Christian God would help him win wars, so the Roman Empire became Christian. The Romans conquered Europe, and forced everyone to be Christian.

Rome fell, Europe rose. There were many European colonies, including the ones in America. Native people were converted to Christianity.

The USA became a great world power. The USA is, and always was, predominately Christian.

The greatest world power is Christian -- Christianity must be a powerful religion.

So that's how a local shaman/prophet became almost as famous as the Beatles in the 1960s.

I am NOT trying to minimize Christianity and all it stands for. But the things Jesus said were probably said by many others. And maybe they were said better by others.

Jesus didn't want to be crucified, didn't know ahead of time that was his fate, was not intending to be the world's blood sacrifice.

Jesus didn't come back to life after 3 days. At least we have no reliable reason for thinking that he did.

Jesus wasn't the biological son of the Jewish God. He called God his Father, because that's what everyone called the Jewish God, and we still do.
I pretty much agree with you when we talk about theology of Jesus as it makes sense. And obviously that’s the Islamic belief of Jesus. He was a true prophet of God. Jesus wasnt God or God’s son.
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:31 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,717,984 times
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It's rather how Jefferson thought of himself as 'Christian'. He didn't believe that Jesus was son of God, divine or able to work miracles. But he did think that the Gospels were the best rule of law for life that there was.

Of course, he'd probably never read a word of the Tripitaka. But even then he'd probably opt for the teachings of Jesus as they are, when you come to think of it, surprisingly apt to be worldly commands for living. He could have just said - "Never mind about you fellow man, your job, your car and you wife. They all suck, except your wife. You just give it all the the poor and follow me." But a lot of it can be put into worldly practice, like as if this world mattered.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
3,299 posts, read 3,025,823 times
Reputation: 12605
To me, there's a difference between why what Jesus supposedly said a long time ago might be popular, and why Jesus himself is still popular.

I never much cared for or worried about what was written in the Bible, except that there are a lot of quotations from it that I'll use because they are apt for a situation. I was raised as a Christian, and maybe that's why this happened, or maybe not. Anyway, as much as I tried to get away from the church (as I from observation came to believe it is an organization that espouses ideals but in truth is full of self righteous people doing inhumane things to each other in the name of God), no matter what spiritual path I tried to connect with, it didn't come down to me connecting with a deity. In every case where I have had a lasting, close relationship with a deity, the deity chose me.

And Jesus chose me. When I would sit down to meditate, Jesus was there. Sometimes Mary was there too, and I most certainly did not grow up with the idea that Mary was anyone special, because my church did not hold with that notion. But there He or She would be, gently talking to me and allaying my fears. So even though I don't consider myself a Christian, don't trust any church, don't go to church, don't celebrate the holidays, and for sure don't try to persuade anyone else to my beliefs, I walk with Jesus every day, simply because day in and day out, He was there, and He persisted in winning me to Him.

Sometimes people will ask, "Have you read the Bible?" And sometimes they will ask, "Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ?" To me, those are two entirely different things. The Bible is a dry old compendium of what humans thought about the Divine. Usually they had an axe to grind, and sometimes they got it right, but mostly they got it wrong, and some of it makes no sense whatsoever.

But Jesus is alive, a warm, wise being who hangs out with me every day in a very personal way. He is recorded as having said some loving, kind, and wise words, but that's not why I like Him. I like Him because every time I need Him, He's there for me, and he says loving, kind, and wise words to me, personally. And someone like that is bound to be popular.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:57 AM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
631 posts, read 562,781 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I pretty much agree with you when we talk about theology of Jesus as it makes sense. And obviously that’s the Islamic belief of Jesus. He was a true prophet of God. Jesus wasnt God or God’s son.
Not all Christians believe Jesus is God. Some, quite possibly a minority, consider him not as God, but as the son of God.

In comparing Mohammed to Jesus, I look at their works. Jesus' demonstrations of God's power were so much higher than Mohammed's.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:33 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,017,904 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post

Jesus didn't want to be crucified, didn't know ahead of time that was his fate, was not intending to be the world's blood sacrifice.

Jesus didn't come back to life after 3 days. At least we have no reliable reason for thinking that he did.

Jesus wasn't the biological son of the Jewish God. He called God his Father, because that's what everyone called the Jewish God, and we still do.
Complete unsubstantiated nonsense. He's God. He knew he'd be crucified, he knew he'd rise again. He's "popular" because He's God and he saved his people.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,181,167 times
Reputation: 14070
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Complete unsubstantiated nonsense. He's God. He knew he'd be crucified, he knew he'd rise again. He's "popular" because He's God and he saved his people.

You forgot to capitalize a few "h"s.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,774 posts, read 4,979,959 times
Reputation: 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Complete unsubstantiated nonsense.
Thank you for the warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
He's God. He knew he'd be crucified, he knew he'd rise again. He's "popular" because He's God and he saved his people.
You was not wrong. Complete unsubstantiated nonsense.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:46 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,717,984 times
Reputation: 5930
Well, It's like saying why is Muhammad so popular with Muslims, Buddha with the Buddhists and Stalin with the Stalinists, until he was denounced. And at least once a year Santa is more popular than Jesus, and back in the day, Harry Potter was more globally popular than Jesus.

And I have got to ask - is Jesus Really as popular now as the believers like to think he is?
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