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You obviously think, like so many others, that morality is the essence of religion. But morality and religion are separate things. People think that everything in the Old Testament is religion. It is not. The OT is a collection of various aspects of a culture -- its history, its mythology, philosophy, and its legal code. And its religious beliefs.
So now we seem to be stuck with the idea that anything in the OT is religion.
Moral codes exist in all social animal groups, not just humans. Other animals don't have bibles and churches, but they have rules and morality, and altruism.
Religious people seem to feel that religion is the necessary cornerstone of morality. I don't think that morality has anything to do with religion. I think that human morality is an obtuse concept which people attempt to come to grips with in an attempt to live in a harmonious society with other people.
Animals tend to live by the code of might makes right.
The Jesus that is depicted in the Gospels was represented as accepting and subscribing to Pharisaic beliefs. The author of Gospel Matthew went out of his way to establish that Jesus represented the fulfillment of the Zoroastrian prophecy of the coming saoshyant (savior) that would sit in judgement of humankind at the ushering in of the kingdom of God. The belief in the coming savior was widely held by non Jewish hellenistic people, as was the belief in the continuation of life after death in heaven by many hellenistic people.
Matthew 2:1-2 (Greek Interlinear Translation)
OF-the yet Jesus being born in BETHLEHEM OF-the Judea in DAYS OF-HEROD THE KING lo! MAGians
(magi/magoi)from the east came-along into Jerusalem saying ?-where IS BEING-BROUGHT-FORTH KING OF-THE JUDA-ans WE-PERCEIVED for OF-HIM the star in the east and WE-CAME TO-worship to-Him. http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...NTpdf/mat2.pdf
The MAGians/Magoi, or magi, were Zoroastrian priests, come, according to Gospel Matthew, to sanctify and establish the long awaited coming of the prophesied Zoroastrian saoshyant (savior).
Magi
Wikipedia
Magi
Magi (/'me?d?a?/; singular magus /'me?g?s/; from Latin magus) denotes followers of Zoroastrianism or Zoroaster. The earliest known use of the word Magi is in the trilingual inscription written by Darius the Great, known as the Behistun Inscription. Old Persian texts, pre-dating the Hellenistic period, refer to a Magus as a Zurvanic, and presumably Zoroastrian, priest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi
The Jesus of the Gospels clearly held Pharisaic beliefs. The historical Yeshua, if he existed at all, has been lost to history. So we have no way to know WHAT he actually believed.
We can trace all paganism right back to the grandson of Noah.
Zoroaster is just another name for Tammuz, and Tammuz is the resurrected Nimrod, Nimrod built Babylon and sent to build Egypt and so it doesn't matter whether we look to Zoroaster, Zeus, or Odin, they can all be traced right back to the grandson of Noah. Adam taught his family the truth from the beginning and they lived 100's of years carrying a truth that one day a mother would bear a holy child that would overcome death. This truth was taught to the grandsons of Noah and Nimrod became that first resurrected Messiah after he died and his mother/wife proclaimed that the god of the sun has planted Nimrod back in her womb and so he obtained the name,'' Tammuz.''
It's no surprize that the same common links are found in all religions just like the story of the flood was found all over the world in every continent and Noah has VERY MANY NAMES I COULD LIST.
OF COURSE PIECES OF THE ORIGINAL TRUTH IS FOUND IN MOST ALL PAGANISM.
We have all those gods of Rome which just came from Greece, and everything Greece had, they took from Babylon and Egypt and they refined the worship of gods better than Egypt or Babylon and all of them can be traced right back to the grandson of Noah, Christianity is not built from Paganism, Paganism was built from the oral Traditions told from generation to generation where it changed a little from country to country, language to language mixing in. The links are irrefutable.
666
On another interesting note, we are instructed about the Messiah of Babylon, the people who follow him and who he is.
The name of the Messiah of Babylon is not ever going to change, he was the first supposed resurrected man and his resurrection made him the most worshipped man.
Again, his name is Tammuz and the name of the Babylonian Messiah will always be Tammuz, and that is why that where you find his name, we also find the 666, it isn't much of a secret being that everyone knew Tammuz to be the Messiah of Babylon.
We can trace all paganism right back to the grandson of Noah.
Zoroaster is just another name for Tammuz, and Tammuz is the resurrected Nimrod, Nimrod built Babylon and sent to build Egypt and so it doesn't matter whether we look to Zoroaster, Zeus, or Odin, they can all be traced right back to the grandson of Noah. Adam taught his family the truth from the beginning and they lived 100's of years carrying a truth that one day a mother would bear a holy child that would overcome death. This truth was taught to the grandsons of Noah and Nimrod became that first resurrected Messiah after he died and his mother/wife proclaimed that the god of the sun has planted Nimrod back in her womb and so he obtained the name,'' Tammuz.''
It's no surprize that the same common links are found in all religions just like the story of the flood was found all over the world in every continent and Noah has VERY MANY NAMES I COULD LIST.
OF COURSE PIECES OF THE ORIGINAL TRUTH IS FOUND IN MOST ALL PAGANISM.
We have all those gods of Rome which just came from Greece, and everything Greece had, they took from Babylon and Egypt and they refined the worship of gods better than Egypt or Babylon and all of them can be traced right back to the grandson of Noah, Christianity is not built from Paganism, Paganism was built from the oral Traditions told from generation to generation where it changed a little from country to country, language to language mixing in. The links are irrefutable.
666
On another interesting note, we are instructed about the Messiah of Babylon, the people who follow him and who he is.
The name of the Messiah of Babylon is not ever going to change, he was the first supposed resurrected man and his resurrection made him the most worshipped man.
Again, his name is Tammuz and the name of the Babylonian Messiah will always be Tammuz, and that is why that where you find his name, we also find the 666, it isn't much of a secret being that everyone knew Tammuz to be the Messiah of Babylon.
No,
And there is no reason to encourage fiction ole friend.
We can trace all paganism right back to the grandson of Noah.
Zoroaster is just another name for Tammuz, and Tammuz is the resurrected Nimrod, Nimrod built Babylon and sent to build Egypt and so it doesn't matter whether we look to Zoroaster, Zeus, or Odin, they can all be traced right back to the grandson of Noah. Adam taught his family the truth from the beginning and they lived 100's of years carrying a truth that one day a mother would bear a holy child that would overcome death. This truth was taught to the grandsons of Noah and Nimrod became that first resurrected Messiah after he died and his mother/wife proclaimed that the god of the sun has planted Nimrod back in her womb and so he obtained the name,'' Tammuz.''
It's no surprize that the same common links are found in all religions just like the story of the flood was found all over the world in every continent and Noah has VERY MANY NAMES I COULD LIST.
OF COURSE PIECES OF THE ORIGINAL TRUTH IS FOUND IN MOST ALL PAGANISM.
We have all those gods of Rome which just came from Greece, and everything Greece had, they took from Babylon and Egypt and they refined the worship of gods better than Egypt or Babylon and all of them can be traced right back to the grandson of Noah, Christianity is not built from Paganism, Paganism was built from the oral Traditions told from generation to generation where it changed a little from country to country, language to language mixing in. The links are irrefutable.
666
On another interesting note, we are instructed about the Messiah of Babylon, the people who follow him and who he is.
The name of the Messiah of Babylon is not ever going to change, he was the first supposed resurrected man and his resurrection made him the most worshipped man.
Again, his name is Tammuz and the name of the Babylonian Messiah will always be Tammuz, and that is why that where you find his name, we also find the 666, it isn't much of a secret being that everyone knew Tammuz to be the Messiah of Babylon.
Your recognition of the similarities in the spiritual fossil record is good but you misinterpret them because you come to the reading with a preferred perspective based on Israelite traditions. I pursued the spiritual record from an objective perspective devoid of any preconceived philosophy or religious indoctrination. We agree on the syncretism and the spiritual template underlying the various memes, but your devotion to the Judaic version is biased. The Jesus narrative is a far more advanced and sophisticated version of the template that has been validated by centuries of impact on human spirituality and understanding of God.
And, as you know it has been argued that Buddhism is a more enlightened and humane philosophy that Christianity - even though it came half a century before, and that humanism - the latest 'revelation' - is better than both of them. But you still adhere to the Judaeo-Christian template that you were spoonfed.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-22-2018 at 07:15 PM..
Your recognition of the similarities in the spiritual fossil record is good but you misinterpret them because you come to the reading with a preferred perspective based on Israelite traditions. I pursued the spiritual record from an objective perspective devoid of any preconceived philosophy or religious indoctrination. We agree on the syncretism and the spiritual template underlying the various memes, but your devotion to the Judaic version is biased. The Jesus narrative is a far more advanced and sophisticated version of the template that has been validated by centuries of impact on human spirituality and understanding of God.
I came to my understanding through a thousand hours of doing nothing but studying paganism back in the day when I cursed Catholics when I had the pope as the devil, you know the story.
I read everything on the subject just about, and that was including the purchase of books specifically trying to prove that Jesus never even lived, and what is common amongst the authors that write about Christianity stemming from paganism is their omission of the best authors who studied the subject before they did. You take the book,'' The Jesus mysteries,'' this book tried to prove that Jesus never lived and what they say may not be suspect to the ignorant, but to people who really study paganism, it is very suspect in leaving out and avoiding much of the truth because it didn't fit their fairy tale. The best authors on paganism were purposely avoided because they knew they would have been contradicted, cute book, but not something I could take seriously.
Every day I am surrounded by people I can't take seriously when it comes to paganism because most people wont admit what is what. If I point out how most Christians keep Pagan holy days, it falls on deaf ears. I sure don't expect much from Atheists if even the Christian wont admit the truth, and that truth is that it all comes from Noah's grandson, bits and pieces of the truth twisted here and there. All people can be traced right back to the region because all people have common links even being divided by continents, they all have the same common links.
We can trace all paganism right back to the grandson of Noah.
Zoroaster is just another name for Tammuz, and Tammuz is the resurrected Nimrod, Nimrod built Babylon and sent to build Egypt and so it doesn't matter whether we look to Zoroaster, Zeus, or Odin, they can all be traced right back to the grandson of Noah. Adam taught his family the truth from the beginning and they lived 100's of years carrying a truth that one day a mother would bear a holy child that would overcome death. This truth was taught to the grandsons of Noah and Nimrod became that first resurrected Messiah after he died and his mother/wife proclaimed that the god of the sun has planted Nimrod back in her womb and so he obtained the name,'' Tammuz.''
It's no surprize that the same common links are found in all religions just like the story of the flood was found all over the world in every continent and Noah has VERY MANY NAMES I COULD LIST.
OF COURSE PIECES OF THE ORIGINAL TRUTH IS FOUND IN MOST ALL PAGANISM.
We have all those gods of Rome which just came from Greece, and everything Greece had, they took from Babylon and Egypt and they refined the worship of gods better than Egypt or Babylon and all of them can be traced right back to the grandson of Noah, Christianity is not built from Paganism, Paganism was built from the oral Traditions told from generation to generation where it changed a little from country to country, language to language mixing in. The links are irrefutable.
666
On another interesting note, we are instructed about the Messiah of Babylon, the people who follow him and who he is.
The name of the Messiah of Babylon is not ever going to change, he was the first supposed resurrected man and his resurrection made him the most worshipped man.
Again, his name is Tammuz and the name of the Babylonian Messiah will always be Tammuz, and that is why that where you find his name, we also find the 666, it isn't much of a secret being that everyone knew Tammuz to be the Messiah of Babylon.
Wikipedia
Dumuzid
God of shepherds
Consort Inanna (later known as Ishtar)
Parents Sirtur and an unknown father
Siblings Geshtinanna (sister), Amashilama (not usually, but in some texts said to be his sister)
Equivalents
Greek equivalent Adonis
East Semitic equivalent Tammuz
Levantine equivalent Tammuz/Adonis
Dumuzid, later known by the alternate form Tammuz, is an ancient Mesopotamian god associated with shepherds, who was also the primary consort of the goddess Inanna (later known as Ishtar). In Sumerian mythology, Dumuzid's sister was Geshtinanna, the goddess of vegetation. In the Sumerian King List, Dumuzid is listed as an antediluvian king of the city of Bad-tibira and also an early king of the city of Uruk. In the Sumerian poem Inanna Prefers the Farmer, Dumuzid competes against the farmer Enkimdu for Inanna's hand in marriage. In Inanna's Descent into the Underworld, Dumuzid fails to mourn Inanna's death and, when she returns from the Underworld, she allows the galla demons to drag him down to the Underworld as her replacement. Inanna later regrets this decision and decrees that Dumuzid will spend half the year in the Underworld, but the other half of the year with her, while his sister Geshtinanna stays in the Underworld in his place, thus resulting in the cycle of the seasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumuzid
Zoroaster, or Zarathustra, Who was Persian, not Babylonian, is believed to have been an actual historical individual, in the same way that Jesus and the Buddha are believed, by many, to have been actual historical individuals.
Wikipedia
Paganism
Paganism is a term first used in the fourth century by early Christians for populations of the Roman Empire who practiced polytheism, either because they were increasingly rural and provincial relative to the Christian population or because they were not milites Christi (soldiers of Christ). Alternate terms in Christian texts for the same group were hellene, gentile, and heathen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism
J. M. Robertson writes: "Like Christ,and like Adonis and Attis, Osiris and Dionysus also suffer and die to rise again. To become one with them is the mystical passion of their worshippers. They are all alike in that their mysteries give them immortality. From Mithraism Christ takes the symbolic keys of heaven and hell and assumes the function of the virgin-born Saoshyant, the destroyer of the evil one. Like Mithra, Merodach,the Egyptian Khousu, he is a mediator; like Khousu, Horus and Merodach he is one of a trinity, like Horus he is joined with the Logos; and like Merodach he is associated with a holy spirit, one of whose symbol is fire. In fundamentals, Christianity is but paganism reshaped."(Pagan Christs, Robertson pp.52-53)
Historian Will Durant concurs:
"Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. The Greek mind, dying, came to a transmigrated life in the theology and liturgy of the church; the Greek language having reigned for centuries over philosophy, became the vehicle of Christian literature and ritual;the Greek mysteries passed down into the impressive mystery of the mass. Other pagan cultures contributed to the syncretist result. From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity, the last judgement and a personal immortality of reward and punishment; from Egypt the adoration of the mother and child, and the mystic philosophy that made Neoplatonism and Gnosticism, and obscured the Christian creed; there too, Christian monasticism would find it's exemplars and it's source. From Phrygia came the worship of the Great Mother; from Syria the Resurrection drama of Adonis; from Thrace, perhaps, the cult of Dionysus, the dying and saving god. From Persia came millenarianism, the Darkness and the Light; already in the Fourth Gospel Christ is the `Light shining in the darkness and the darkness has never put it out.' The Mithraic ritual so closely resembled the eucharistic sacrifice of the Mass that Christian fathers charged the Devil with inventing these similarities to mislead frail minds. Christianity was the last great creation of the pagan world." (The Story of Civilization vol.3, "Caesar and Christ" by Will Durant, p.595).
And, as you know it has been argued that Buddhism is a more enlightened and humane philosophy that Christianity - even though it came half a century before, and that humanism - the latest 'revelation' - is better than both of them. But you still adhere to the Judaeo-Christian template that you were spoonfed.
You know I wasn't spoonfed anything, Arq! The ACTUAL Christ narrative is an advancement on the Buddhist one and Jesus is the Maitreya that Buddha predicted 500 years earlier would supersede his achievement of Maitri. Jesus maintained Matiri (love for all including His torturers and murderers) and truly remained indifferent to the enormous scourging and crucifixion that took His life. Try to tell me that Buddha displayed that level of perfection.
You know I wasn't spoonfed anything, Arq! The ACTUAL Christ narrative is an advancement on the Buddhist one and Jesus is the Maitreya that Buddha predicted 500 years earlier would supersede his achievement of Maitri. Jesus maintained Matiri (love for all including His torturers and murderers) and truly remained indifferent to the enormous scourging and crucifixion that took His life. Try to tell me that Buddha displayed that level of perfection.
Virtually no Buddhist would accept your fantasy. And I HATE it when christians try to co-opt other religions. Shame on you.
Wikipedia
Dumuzid
God of shepherds
Consort Inanna (later known as Ishtar)
Parents Sirtur and an unknown father
Siblings Geshtinanna (sister), Amashilama (not usually, but in some texts said to be his sister)
Equivalents
Greek equivalent Adonis
East Semitic equivalent Tammuz
Levantine equivalent Tammuz/Adonis
Dumuzid, later known by the alternate form Tammuz, is an ancient Mesopotamian god associated with shepherds, who was also the primary consort of the goddess Inanna (later known as Ishtar). In Sumerian mythology, Dumuzid's sister was Geshtinanna, the goddess of vegetation. In the Sumerian King List, Dumuzid is listed as an antediluvian king of the city of Bad-tibira and also an early king of the city of Uruk. In the Sumerian poem Inanna Prefers the Farmer, Dumuzid competes against the farmer Enkimdu for Inanna's hand in marriage. In Inanna's Descent into the Underworld, Dumuzid fails to mourn Inanna's death and, when she returns from the Underworld, she allows the galla demons to drag him down to the Underworld as her replacement. Inanna later regrets this decision and decrees that Dumuzid will spend half the year in the Underworld, but the other half of the year with her, while his sister Geshtinanna stays in the Underworld in his place, thus resulting in the cycle of the seasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumuzid
Zoroaster, or Zarathustra, Who was Persian, not Babylonian, is believed to have been an actual historical individual, in the same way that Jesus and the Buddha are believed, by many, to have been actual historical individuals.
Wikipedia
Paganism
Paganism is a term first used in the fourth century by early Christians for populations of the Roman Empire who practiced polytheism, either because they were increasingly rural and provincial relative to the Christian population or because they were not milites Christi (soldiers of Christ). Alternate terms in Christian texts for the same group were hellene, gentile, and heathen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism
J. M. Robertson writes: "Like Christ,and like Adonis and Attis, Osiris and Dionysus also suffer and die to rise again. To become one with them is the mystical passion of their worshippers. They are all alike in that their mysteries give them immortality. From Mithraism Christ takes the symbolic keys of heaven and hell and assumes the function of the virgin-born Saoshyant, the destroyer of the evil one. Like Mithra, Merodach,the Egyptian Khousu, he is a mediator; like Khousu, Horus and Merodach he is one of a trinity, like Horus he is joined with the Logos; and like Merodach he is associated with a holy spirit, one of whose symbol is fire. In fundamentals, Christianity is but paganism reshaped."(Pagan Christs, Robertson pp.52-53)
Historian Will Durant concurs:
"Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. The Greek mind, dying, came to a transmigrated life in the theology and liturgy of the church; the Greek language having reigned for centuries over philosophy, became the vehicle of Christian literature and ritual;the Greek mysteries passed down into the impressive mystery of the mass. Other pagan cultures contributed to the syncretist result. From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity, the last judgement and a personal immortality of reward and punishment; from Egypt the adoration of the mother and child, and the mystic philosophy that made Neoplatonism and Gnosticism, and obscured the Christian creed; there too, Christian monasticism would find it's exemplars and it's source. From Phrygia came the worship of the Great Mother; from Syria the Resurrection drama of Adonis; from Thrace, perhaps, the cult of Dionysus, the dying and saving god. From Persia came millenarianism, the Darkness and the Light; already in the Fourth Gospel Christ is the `Light shining in the darkness and the darkness has never put it out.' The Mithraic ritual so closely resembled the eucharistic sacrifice of the Mass that Christian fathers charged the Devil with inventing these similarities to mislead frail minds. Christianity was the last great creation of the pagan world." (The Story of Civilization vol.3, "Caesar and Christ" by Will Durant, p.595).
Yeah, I understand the debate. What is obvious is that all those pagan beliefs can in fact be linked to Christianity, and Christians have even taken on pagan ways, but not the ways of Jesus. Again, Adam taught his son, and he even taught Noah, it had already been known before you came along, the truth was always known, it is no secret that all people share the common bloodline going back to the sons of Noah and those sons of Noah spread their stories all over the globe and the common links found all over the globe only prove that all people came from the same region to then spread out with tneir original truth. We find the story of Noah amongst ancient people before Jesus ever came along, we find the story of Noah EVERYWHERE, and all this does is to trace people back to the same region in stemming from the same people, the same vamilh, we already know this and so why would we be surprized if bits of the truth was found amongst all people, amongst all religions that stem from the same original truth?
The fact that all those pagan religions have the same common thread IS NOT EVIDENCE AGAINST GOD, IT IS EVIDENCE FOR GOD.
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