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Of course. But both sides are still interpreting the same evidence their own way.
yes, we have different factions in both camps. we have a multitude of agenda's. Some are honestly looking for the best descriptors of the events we see around us and others are simply in this to "sell" their statement of belief about god (yes or anti).
Predict how people how adress 'evidence" when in the mindset of
What difference does it make in your life, or in your religious belief, if you don't know how the Universe started? I ask because I can't imagine that it makes any difference at all what a person has for dinner, or how people conduct themselves at a religious ceremony. What difference does it make in anything you do?
this is a personal opinion. it doesn't make a diference in some people's lives and it makes a diference in others people's lives. Either stance has little bearing on describing how the universe works to the best of our ability.
My brother could care less about the size of beetlejuice and weather it exist or not has no meaning in his life.
I don't care that he doesn't care. i don't care that knowing doesn't effect my life. the simple fact is that claiming it is there is more valid than claiming it is not there.
What difference does it make in your life, or in your religious belief, if you don't know how the Universe started? I ask because I can't imagine that it makes any difference at all what a person has for dinner, or how people conduct themselves at a religious ceremony. What difference does it make in anything you do?
This is a very weird question.
Seriously, on one hand I don't know how to answer this precisely, and on the other hand I have a thousand answers.
How about I reply with a question?
What difference does it make in anything you do to know or not to know why I wonder about how the universe started?
There's no problem, until that person wants other people to believe it, too.
But when someone states something like that...in fact when a person states anything...he or she should expect other opinions to be stated.
To answer the bold part: I don't think it's a problem that a person may want other people to believe in what he believes in.
However, some of the ways he acts on it, are not exactly right, IMO.
Finding God by his signs is a journey that one should take with a free choice. There is no compulsion.
Another sad way of making other people believe what one believes is, the way many Christian missioners work all around the world.
They reach out to people in dire staits due to war, hunger, poverty etc, and provide monetary help, food, medicine etc, in return of getting those poor people convert into Christianity. There are other wrong ways too, but I guess you got the point.
on face it ... it doesn't matter. And when the claims have similar weight you are free to believe whatever you want.
lets get back to the question
generally speaking, Is it better to form a "faith statement' based on knowns or is it better to form a "statement of belief" based on unknowns?
How about this:
to push a faith based on knowns on people? or to push a faith based on unknowns on people?
"Pushing" one faith on other people (whether based on knows or unknowns) is something I personally don't support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
keep in mind GoC, I don't care how the universe works. It works the way it works. I do not have "anti-christian", "anti-theist", or anti-religion" that i have to answer to. My claim is we are in a system of life and some theist are misunderstanding it. None of the anti-godders have a more valid claim. In fact, most of them hold less valid claims. Thats why we will always outnumber the "deny every spring board" types.
Do you really believe that a system of life exists?
If no, we dont have an argument.
If yes, then it comes to our individual logic and intelligence to answer the next question, who or what created this system? A force with intelligence OR this system created itself?
. To Muslims who study the Qur'an its verses contain the most elegant and refined poetry and just stylistically alone they see it as evidence of divinity. When one finds so much meaning in a particular belief every little thing becomes an affirmation of said belief.
Of course, in reality those standards of evidence would not survive any kind of scrutiny but since these beliefs are largely driven by emotional needs and desires, those objections can easily be dismissed.
I wouldn't call it "evidence".
IMO, the right term is "sign".
If you study Qur'an, you may notice it rather talks about "signs" and not "evidences".
For example: “Say: ‘Praise be to God. He will show you His Signs and you will recognize them. Your Lord is never unmindful of what you all do..’” (Quran 27:93)
And when once takes a journey to reach to a certain destination, he rather looks for signs that may mean something to him, but the exact same signs may not mean anything to those who are traveling towards a different destination or have no destination at all.
IMO, it's all starts with, if one has a desire/want/need to find God's guidance in his life?
If yes, he takes this journey and tries his best to recognize God by his signs.
And those who demand proofs and evidences, will perhaps never find one, because there isn't any.
To answer the bold part: I don't think it's a problem that a person may want other people to believe in what he believes in.
However, some of the ways he acts on it, are not exactly right, IMO.
Finding God by his signs is a journey that one should take with a free choice. There is no compulsion.
Another sad way of making other people believe what one believes is, the way many Christian missioners work all around the world.
They reach out to people in dire staits due to war, hunger, poverty etc, and provide monetary help, food, medicine etc, in return of getting those poor people convert into Christianity. There are other wrong ways too, but I guess you got the point.
1. Naturally you don't think it's a problem when christians want to push their beliefs on others. How you gonna feel if it's Hindus who start knocking on your door wanting to preach their religion on you? Hare Krishnas who bombard your mailbox with advertisements? Or Mormons who accost you and your family when you're out sightseeing? Or, since you just mentioned "I don't think it's a problem that a person may want other people to believe in what he believes in"...what if it's American Nazis, the KKK, BLM, or other radical groups.
1. Naturally you don't think it's a problem when christians want to push their beliefs on others. How you gonna feel if it's Hindus who start knocking on your door wanting to preach their religion on you? Hare Krishnas who bombard your mailbox with advertisements? Or Mormons who accost you and your family when you're out sightseeing? Or, since you just mentioned "I don't think it's a problem that a person may want other people to believe in what he believes in"...what if it's American Nazis, the KKK, BLM, or other radical groups.
2. You're right about missionaries.
Knocking on one's door to extend a religious based agenda or even door to door business solicitation is sort of pushing it - and I don't support it.
"Pushing" one faith on other people (whether based on knows or unknowns) is something I personally don't support.
Do you really believe that a system of life exists?
If no, we dont have an argument.
If yes, then it comes to our individual logic and intelligence to answer the next question, who or what created this system? A force with intelligence OR this system created itself?
that wasn't the question GoC. The question is:
generally speaking, Is it better to form a "faith statement' based on knowns or is it better to form a "statement of belief" based on unknowns?
What is best in teaching how people to form a statement of belief?
I use what i know, the 'periodic table', (it imply's a lot more than just the table itself), to claim that the system we are in is better described as "life" as apposed to "non life". Some theist are misrepresenting it and some fundy atheist are intentionally trying to hide that fact so it can't be used as a springboard. the latter is far more deceitful than the former. I cannot side with deceit, no matter what they believe.
did my wife "intellectually" create our children? Did you "intellectually" create your blood cells?
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