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Old 02-22-2019, 09:54 AM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,673 posts, read 3,874,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
I did.

It was mostly about you and your feelings.

.
Exactly
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:04 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,641,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
She has had that conversation a number of times. This is an ongoing issue, in fact, I had a brief discussion with him before Christmas trying to explain that people have different believes, but that doesn't mean they are true. Try telling a 7 year old that and make sense. I don't think my discussion helped, and it was brief.
He's 7; who is his ultimate authority? Mom? Dad? Have that person sit down with him and state "No, you are not going to hell; I said so". This approach reassured my son at the same age that all was well.

Last edited by Petunia 100; 02-22-2019 at 12:16 PM..
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
I would say that even if we granted for the sake of argument that both Christianity and the hell doctrine were true (about 25% of Christians subscribe to Universalism instead), it would still be unacceptable for a 7-year old to be talking about hell. Far more so than kids talking about sex or other explicit things that could do them harm in the future. And it shouldn't be problematic for a Christian to accept this, since they tend to believe that children of that age aren't at risk of going to hell anyway. Not until they reach something like 12 years old, I hear.

But of course, what I think they should adopt instead is Universalism. It seems more consistent with the rest of their doctrines and, obviously, avoids this whole issue of "scare tactics".
Just to clarify, when you use the term "their", you mean christians in general and of all ages?
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:39 PM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 10 days ago)
 
35,635 posts, read 17,982,736 times
Reputation: 50676
The idea, that the government should restrain parents from passing on their deeply held religious beliefs to their children is terrifying to me.

What is being dismissed here, that's really important, is the parents passionately believe what they are teaching their children. To tell them they couldn't pass on this information and lifestyle to their children is tantamount, truthfully, from barring parents from telling their kids not to eat mistletoe or play in the streets.

Children who have strong imaginations are terrified of things, OP. If not someone else's God, he'd likely be terrified of the house burning down or his mother dying.

7 is the age where fear and anxiety grips a lot of kids.

I suspect this will not be the only, or the greatest source of extreme anxiety for your grandchild, and suggest you develop strategies to help him calm his fears, other than wanting to pass laws barring parents from teaching their beliefs to their children.

How would your grandchild handle it if he became close friends with, say, the child of a doomsday prepper? Would you seek to legally block those parents from passing on their belief that they must be prepared for a very serious disaster?

Last edited by ClaraC; 02-22-2019 at 12:51 PM..
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:03 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,673 posts, read 3,874,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
He's 7; who is his ultimate authority? Mom? Dad? Have that person sit down with him and state "No, you are not going to hellâ€.
That’s just way too much common sense. It’s an excellent teaching opportunity - to explain there is no hell.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
The idea, that the government should restrain parents from passing on their deeply held religious beliefs to their children is terrifying to me.

What is being dismissed here, that's really important, is the parents passionately believe what they are teaching their children. To tell them they couldn't pass on this information and lifestyle to their children is tantamount, truthfully, from barring parents from telling their kids not to eat mistletoe or play in the streets.

Children who have strong imaginations are terrified of things, OP. If not someone else's God, he'd likely be terrified of the house burning down or his mother dying.

7 is the age where fear and anxiety grips a lot of kids.

I suspect this will not be the only, or the greatest source of extreme anxiety for your grandchild, and suggest you develop strategies to help him calm his fears, other than wanting to pass laws barring parents from teaching their beliefs to their children.

How would your grandchild handle it if he became close friends with, say, the child of a doomsday prepper? Would you seek to legally block those parents from passing on their belief that they must be prepared for a very serious disaster?
I tend to agree with your conclusion, but not with your way of getting there.

When you say, "What is being dismissed here, that's really important, is the parents passionately believe what they are teaching their children". I'm sure that parents who beat their children passionately believe what they are teaching their children. Same for incest. Same for racism.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:22 PM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 10 days ago)
 
35,635 posts, read 17,982,736 times
Reputation: 50676
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I tend to agree with your conclusion, but not with your way of getting there.

When you say, "What is being dismissed here, that's really important, is the parents passionately believe what they are teaching their children". I'm sure that parents who beat their children passionately believe what they are teaching their children. Same for incest. Same for racism.
Well, you can't beat your kids or have sex with them.

But you certainly - legally - can pass any racist views you have on to your children, or any other deeply held belief you have.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32967
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Well, you can't beat your kids or have sex with them.

But you certainly - legally - can pass any racist views you have on to your children, or any other deeply held belief you have.
So you claim that there are not children who are beaten or sexually abused? And you claim that those parents aren't doing what they think is right?
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:25 PM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 10 days ago)
 
35,635 posts, read 17,982,736 times
Reputation: 50676
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
So you claim that there are not children who are beaten or sexually abused? And you claim that those parents aren't doing what they think is right?
No, I didn't say that. I said you can't. Legally. Beat your children or have sex with them.

Please don't purposely try to misunderstand what I'm saying, or this conversation will go nowhere.

And "doing what you think is right" vs. "telling your children things you believe to be true" are two very very different things.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:51 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,673 posts, read 3,874,206 times
Reputation: 6008
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I tend to agree with your conclusion, but not with your way of getting there.

When you say, "What is being dismissed here, that's really important, is the parents passionately believe what they are teaching their children". I'm sure that parents who beat their children passionately believe what they are teaching their children. Same for incest. Same for racism.
I agree parents believe what they are teaching their children is ‘true’ - which is why it’s so important for us to teach (and spread knowledge) about atheism. And equality.

To suggest it is comparable to incest, however, is absurd - and does nothing but cheapen our argument.

Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 02-22-2019 at 02:39 PM..
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