Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And here's why it's so sad. If tomorrow we actually found out that there was no god, Clara would be left with nothing to live for. It's interesting that there are millions of people in this world who don't believe in god, yet have productive and meaningful lives.
Can't you see how that is just a sick fantasy? Can a housecat do that? What makes you think a primate like yourself could do know so much about the universe?
Exactly. EXACTLY. Not always the answer I sought, but an answer that works.
I am happy that you received an answer that works and that you clarified how prayers has worked for you.
My experience has been that in order to promote their faith, a Christian will say their prayers are always answered by Jesus. End of conversation. But if they allow you to dig a little deeper, you find out their expectations almost always had to change in the process of the prayer. That to me is just problem solving which is something that most people can learn without religion.
And here's why it's so sad. If tomorrow we actually found out that there was no god, Clara would be left with nothing to live for. It's interesting that there are millions of people in this world who don't believe in god, yet have productive and meaningful lives.
I don't think thats true phet. i think most of them would adjust just fine. well, as good as any others that left do anyway.
also, what are the attributes of god? The traits and properties of god begin to over lap with the traits and properties of the universe they become a better predictor of what is actually happening. There will never be proof of "no god" because it just doesn't look like its going that way. Its already is being shown that the traits and attributes that they assigned to god are wrong. There is no biblegod. I can say that as assuredly as I say there is no planet x on the opposite of the sun as us in our orbit.
for example. I say we are surrounded by life. some sects of atheist say thats sortagod. well, if thats what they are calling god, they have already been proven wrong.
I've found phet, that when I use the we use use against "them", I am often forced to readjust the claim. Then, when my claim can hold up better, after the adjustment, it probably more valid in the new form.
Can't you see how that is just a sick fantasy? Can a housecat do that? What makes you think a primate like yourself could do know so much about the universe?
don't think of it like that ozzy. You wouldn't call a car with a flat tire names and be mad at it, would you? be thankful you the ledge you have reached offers a nice view. Help those you can. You have to deal with people, but you don't have to engage all of them.
Think about sitting in the middle of C ward and recording the interaction between the people. Does logic, reason, and common sense have anything to do with it? does it matter that five of them call you mean, selfish, and insane? sure, they will have some points that are valid. we all trip over some good stuff.
I don't think thats true phet. i think most of them would adjust just fine. well, as good as any others that left do anyway.
also, what are the attributes of god? The traits and properties of god begin to over lap with the traits and properties of the universe they become a better predictor of what is actually happening. There will never be proof of "no god" because it just doesn't look like its going that way. Its already is being shown that the traits and attributes that they assigned to god are wrong. There is no biblegod. I can say that as assuredly as I say there is no planet x on the opposite of the sun as us in our orbit.
for example. I say we are surrounded by life. some sects of atheist say thats sortagod. well, if thats what they are calling god, they have already been proven wrong.
I've found phet, that when I use the we use use against "them", I am often forced to readjust the claim. Then, when my claim can hold up better, after the adjustment, it probably more valid in the new form.
I can see this happening, in fact, it happened in this thread in regards to prayer. The discussion started with prayers always being answered by Jesus. Then we find out the answer wasn't always what they wanted to hear. It sounds no different than talking to mom and dad or coming to city-data.
don't think of it like that ozzy. You wouldn't call a car with a flat tire names and be mad at it, would you? be thankful you the ledge you have reached offers a nice view. Help those you can. You have to deal with people, but you don't have to engage all of them.
Think about sitting in the middle of C ward and recording the interaction between the people. Does logic, reason, and common sense have anything to do with it? does it matter that five of them call you mean, selfish, and insane? sure, they will have some points that are valid. we all trip over some good stuff.
I need more of that live and let live attitude. But I still have the nightmares of evangelical religion that I haven't completely shaken.
I can see this happening, in fact, it happened in this thread in regards to prayer. The discussion started with prayers always being answered by Jesus. Then we find out the answer wasn't always what they wanted to hear. It sounds no different than talking to mom and dad or coming to city-data.
I see happening now. we are seeing more atheist coming that are not just fundamental in their thinking about anti-theist. We don't believe in god, we see religion can be dangerous. we make no choices in describing the universe based on the central dogma of anti-theist.
we are seeing where reasonable theist clearly understand what we are saying. And quite frankly, they see what we are saying. thats why they are leaving churches. But, Like Gld said, talking to people that agree isn't to exciting so the reasonable ones tend to just say "yeah, I am ok with that" and move on.
I see happening now. we are seeing more atheist coming that are not just fundamental in their thinking about anti-theist. We don't believe in god, we see religion can be dangerous. we make no choices in describing the universe based on the central dogma of anti-theist.
we are seeing where reasonable theist clearly understand what we are saying. And quite frankly, they see what we are saying. thats why they are leaving churches. But, Like Gld said, talking to people that agree isn't to exciting so the reasonable ones tend to just say "yeah, I am ok with that" and move on.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 1 day ago)
35,583 posts, read 17,927,273 times
Reputation: 50620
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02
I am happy that you received an answer that works and that you clarified how prayers has worked for you.
My experience has been that in order to promote their faith, a Christian will say their prayers are always answered by Jesus. End of conversation. But if they allow you to dig a little deeper, you find out their expectations almost always had to change in the process of the prayer. That to me is just problem solving which is something that most people can learn without religion.
Yes, maybe the expectation changes. The point is, I think, that many many people experience an answer (and speedy quick) to a question that's floated in the air. The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind . . .
In my case, I call on the name of Jesus. In other people, they call on the universe.
Here's one, brief story, and I swear I'm not changing a detail.
A friend was having a very difficult time with her 10 year old son. He was brushed with autism, and had sensory integration disorder, and was in general, extremely defiant and angry. She was near tears at the park, we sat on a bench and she said she needs to find the exact kind of doctor he needs, she doesn't know what kind, she doesn't want to doctor shop, she needs help now. At that moment, a mom on the other side of the park approached us and they both recognized each other as former neighbors, the one had moved out of town. What brings you back for a visit, my friend asked. Turns out, her son has the very same problems, and comes back to town 4X a year to see this fabulous OT who has made a huge difference in his life. She would recommend him to anyone, this woman says, and oddly, he's still accepting patients.
That's what I'm talking about. My friend didn't call out the name of Jesus, as I do, but rather, cried out for help and BAM here it comes in the form of a woman crossing the park to deliver the exact information she was looking for.
And I can't ignore that, and I can't think that spirit force doesn't exist.
And I'm sorry for those who haven't seen it, over and over and over.
I'm not going to give details of other experiences, they're very profound and intimate, but I have literally cried out to Jesus because I needed specific items, and the door to the office I was in literally opened, and a person gave me those items. Out of the blue, and unexpectedly.
I need more of that live and let live attitude. But I still have the nightmares of evangelical religion that I haven't completely shaken.
lamo ... you know I struggle with stupid every day of my life. as I have said many times, I keep a standing army to fight both Fundy-theist-fascist and anti-religious socialism. those people are dangerous because they have locked onto fundamental beliefs that are a danger to the rest of us.
Its not "live and let live". thats not the most rational stance. "deal with life" is more valid. "live and let live" is a fairy tale. It doesn't match observations in human groups. Doing nothing is a good choice sometimes. sometimes it is not. sometimes dealing with life is "ah, let them live."
like exercising. there is the right way ... textbook right. Then there is a way that works for you. If your way overlaps the textbook, that's ok. Like Atkins diet. cutting all of one food group can change our materialism in an unforeseen manor. Thats why I like Europe's drug laws. Let them use them first and record the results.
this god thing is the exact same thing. There is flexibility. but only-my-god and anti-theist are not the most rational paths for most of us.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
