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To be fair, kids make other kids cry over a lot of different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15
Were you the kid crying or the one making kids cry about hell jimmies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If I was 7 years old, I would be terrified if atheist friends told me that I would never get to see my deceased grandparents again. They are just worm food and at any minute of any day, you can suddenly not exist. So basically your life is completely meaningless and will be forgotten and replaced by the next set of DNA.
Like your parents would let you near any atheist children
I’ll bet they encouraged you to be that other kid.
As can I. I was sure that God was going to try to kill me as he did my same-age cousin when we were six. I felt guilty because I knew she must have died because I prayed incorrectly and because sometimes I wasn't really paying attention and goofed around with my sister when I was saying my prayers at night That anxiety blossomed into something far larger and crippling that I still carry today, although after getting help as an adult, it's been greatly minimized.
My brothers and sisters didn't have this same level of anxiety even though they were born into the same family.
The anxiety wasn't solely caused by the religious environment. I can also remember hearing my mother say, "It's interesting how volcanoes just build themselves up out of the ground" and then lying awake all night in terror that a volcano was going to build itself in our backyard.
So the tendency to the anxiety was there and not caused by the religious factor, but the fear and threat of punishment inherent in conservative Christianity fed into it perfectly. I did come up with a coping mechanism. I realized that if I counted to certain numbers or did certain rituals, mental or otherwise, I could stave off the disaster and relieve the anxiety. When I was in my forties, I learned that psychiatry has a name for that coping mechanism.
Ha!
It took being set free from beliefs about a loving/wrathful God condemning the majority of humanity to eternal torment before I was able to find some healing. (I was also in my 40s.) Prior to that, I was convinced I didn't deserve to not feel depressed, anxious and suicidal. But, as I said, there are a lot of people who aren't impacted the same way. Some of the happiest, kindest people I know/knew were raised in the same religion. But then, I also never heard them talking about hell or God being angry. Either they were really good at compartmentalizing and not internalizing those concepts or didn't actually believe it. I was wired differently, sadly.
Here's a question, though … if one child were to convince another child that there is no God and it caused that child fear and anxiety, would that be a problem from your perspective?
Perhaps. As I advised, we live in the buckle of our bible belt. There are some serious fundamentalist families, and I would say they are even the majority. My preference is (and it is unlikely to ever happen) that a child not be indoctrinated into their parents religion. Let them make up their own minds when they are an adult. What is the Aristotle quote?
"Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man”.
Religions have always known this. and preyed on children to indoctrinated them. My daughter was about 15 and she asked if she could go to a friend's church. My answer? "You bet, I'll drive you there". If she wanted to explore at that age, I was OK with that, as I knew she would ask questions when she got home. She never went. My 5 year old granddaughter, living in the same bible belt, asked her dad, my son, to go to church.
He took her to the most boring church he could find. She has not interest in going back. Who knows what it will be like in a few years, but the point is the whole family let children ask those inevitable questions when surrounded by holy rollers.
As can I. I was sure that God was going to try to kill me as he did my same-age cousin when we were six. I felt guilty because I knew she must have died because I prayed incorrectly and because sometimes I wasn't really paying attention and goofed around with my sister when I was saying my prayers at night That anxiety blossomed into something far larger and crippling that I still carry today, although after getting help as an adult, it's been greatly minimized.
My brothers and sisters didn't have this same level of anxiety even though they were born into the same family.
The anxiety wasn't solely caused by the religious environment. I can also remember hearing my mother say, "It's interesting how volcanoes just build themselves up out of the ground" and then lying awake all night in terror that a volcano was going to build itself in our backyard.
So the tendency to the anxiety was there and not caused by the religious factor, but the fear and threat of punishment inherent in conservative Christianity fed into it perfectly. I did come up with a coping mechanism. I realized that if I counted to certain numbers or did certain rituals, mental or otherwise, I could stave off the disaster and relieve the anxiety. When I was in my forties, I learned that psychiatry has a name for that coping mechanism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Ha!
It took being set free from beliefs about a loving/wrathful God condemning the majority of humanity to eternal torment before I was able to find some healing. (I was also in my 40s.) Prior to that, I was convinced I didn't deserve to not feel depressed, anxious and suicidal. But, as I said, there are a lot of people who aren't impacted the same way. Some of the happiest, kindest people I know/knew were raised in the same religion. But then, I also never heard them talking about hell or God being angry. Either they were really good at compartmentalizing and not internalizing those concepts or didn't actually believe it. I was wired differently, sadly.
I am saddened and my heart is broken for both of your younger selves, Pleroo and MQ.
As can I. I was sure that God was going to try to kill me as he did my same-age cousin when we were six. I felt guilty because I knew she must have died because I prayed incorrectly and because sometimes I wasn't really paying attention and goofed around with my sister when I was saying my prayers at night That anxiety blossomed into something far larger and crippling that I still carry today, although after getting help as an adult, it's been greatly minimized.
My brothers and sisters didn't have this same level of anxiety even though they were born into the same family.
The anxiety wasn't solely caused by the religious environment. I can also remember hearing my mother say, "It's interesting how volcanoes just build themselves up out of the ground" and then lying awake all night in terror that a volcano was going to build itself in our backyard.
So the tendency to the anxiety was there and not caused by the religious factor, but the fear and threat of punishment inherent in conservative Christianity fed into it perfectly. I did come up with a coping mechanism. I realized that if I counted to certain numbers or did certain rituals, mental or otherwise, I could stave off the disaster and relieve the anxiety. When I was in my forties, I learned that psychiatry has a name for that coping mechanism.
and that is my perspective too. I still admit eternal hell is a bad teaching. It just doesn't match observation.
I have great empathy for your grandson, normstad. And there is no "blame" in anxiety. It's a brain chemical/neurological thing.
I have experience with children, and children with anxieties.
In the years to come I think you may have to soften your idea that his anxiety was caused 100% by his brush with Christian faith - and more on the probability that he's an anxious child in general.
And I do hope his parents - if he's still showing any signs of the prior anxiety - look into therapy for him. Starting with school resources, and finding out if he's behaving in an anxious way at school as well as at home, and going from there.
One of the first questions you'll likely be asked is if the child had a recent strep infection. In children that age, that often is the trigger for behavioral/psychological/obsessive thought pattern changes.
My daughter is a special ed teacher. I think she understands anxieties in children. Don't sidestep the issue because you want to defend your religion. Don't try and deflect from what is.
It took being set free from beliefs about a loving/wrathful God condemning the majority of humanity to eternal torment before I was able to find some healing. (I was also in my 40s.) Prior to that, I was convinced I didn't deserve to not feel depressed, anxious and suicidal. But, as I said, there are a lot of people who aren't impacted the same way. Some of the happiest, kindest people I know/knew were raised in the same religion. But then, I also never heard them talking about hell or God being angry. Either they were really good at compartmentalizing and not internalizing those concepts or didn't actually believe it. I was wired differently, sadly.
I think some of it is genetic. I can remember my mother telling me that my grandmother (her MIL) had some very odd irrational fears. Interestingly enough, like me, she also experienced death of another child in her childhood--her sister and she both had diphtheria, and she recovered and the sister died in bed next to her. In the parents' own grief, the state of mind of the little sister was probably never properly addressed. Yet I remember my grandmother taking me to see where her sister was buried, and even as a preteen I could see that 70 years later, my grandmother still grieved for her lost sister.
My daughter has also inherited my "stuff". She approached me with it at 13, knowing that something wasn't quite right with her thought patterns, and I immediately recognized and got her to a cognitive behavioral therapist.
I'm being objective, even though as you say here, you are not.
So let's take this away from involving Christianity, and have it involve something secular.
Say this same child had watched a news item about a child who had apparently been kidnapped from his home and the child was still missing.
Then, this 7 year old cried himself to sleep several nights in a row from hearing this traumatic information.
With your teaching experience, what would you say? Would you suggest the child was over reacting a little, and his anxious state over this news was troubling and he deserved to have a therapist evaluate him?
Or would you say (like is being said here by the OP) this is a completely normal and expected reaction on the part of a 7 year old, and deserves no further intervention except now the TV has been unplugged so that he never hears any more troubling news stories that have caused this normal anxiety reaction?
I'm serious in wanting to hear your thoughts.
I'm not going into all sorts of made-up situations when we have a real-time situation.
I'm getting some counseling now myself, although not about religion. But one of the things I asked the counselor up front was if she felt our differing religious beliefs could be an issue.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad
My daughter is a special ed teacher. I think she understands anxieties in children. Don't sidestep the issue because you want to defend your religion. Don't try and deflect from what is.
The thing about the internet is, none of us know each other, and I fully acknowledge you believe what you've just said about me.
And I also realize there's no way for me to convince you otherwise.
So. What does your daughter say, about this seemingly severe anxiety over information shared by a peer?
(I don't know what your daughter's experience is specifically with children and anxiety and trauma, or whether her experience is in working with children with serious intellectual deficiencies. Which are two different things).
If I was 7 years old, I would be terrified if atheist friends told me that I would never get to see my deceased grandparents again. They are just worm food and at any minute of any day, you can suddenly not exist. So basically your life is completely meaningless and will be forgotten and replaced by the next set of DNA.
But isn't it more realistic to speak the truth and realities than the fantasy of whatever religion you may have? No, your life is certainly not meaningless as an atheist. Whatever gave you that idea? In fact, it is MORE meaningful, as atheist live this only life we have.
This life is not a dress rehearsal for some celestial afterlife or a reincarnation. Some quotes to consider:
"Knowing there is a world that will outlive you, there are people whose well-being depends on how you live your life, affects the way you live your life, whether or not you directly experience those effects. You want to be the kind of person who has the larger view, who takes other people’s interests into account, who’s dedicated to the principles that you can justify, like justice, knowledge, truth, beauty and morality." – Steven Pinker
"Raising curious, compassionate, strong, and loving children—teaching them to love others and helping them to see the beauty of humanity—that is the most meaningful and joyful responsibility we have." – Joel Legawiec,
"I look around the world and see so many wonderful things that I love and enjoy and benefit from, whether it’s art or music or clothing or food and all the rest. And I’d like to add a little to that goodness." – Daniel Dennett
"Science and reason liberate us from the shackles of superstition by offering us a framework for understanding our shared humanity. Ultimately, we all have the capacity to treasure life and enrich the world in incalculable ways." – Gad Saad
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before I was able to find some healing. (I was also in my 40s.) Prior to that, I was convinced I didn't deserve to not feel depressed, anxious and suicidal. But, as I said, there are a lot of people who aren't impacted the same way. Some of the happiest, kindest people I know/knew were raised in the same religion. But then, I also never heard them talking about hell or God being angry. Either they were really good at compartmentalizing and not internalizing those concepts or didn't actually believe it. I was wired differently, sadly.
