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Can you understand that I don’t find your story convincing? It isn’t that I don’t believe you, I see no reason to doubt you. The thing that I don’t find convincing is that this is evidence for a god, or sufficient reason for me to believe in one.
How does your theistic belief effect your daily life? Does your belief cause you to ou sh your theology onto others? ...
In response to a post by phetaroi on the first page of the thread, Casual said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor
...
As to your comment about Mushrooms. Again, I understand what you say. That's why I state--I will not try to shove this down somebody's throat. I mention it and desperately try to not be over bearing. I don't criticize other faiths and beliefs.
With your friends, my take would be--have you at least tried mushrooms? (for years, I hated pizza---before I tasted it. Yes, real world analogy)
If they have, so be it...they hate mushrooms. 'Nuff said.
If not...just to get them to nibble would be my goal because they might be missing something entirely tasty.
So, I'd say he does not believe in pushing his theology on others beyond offering it for consideration. He was doing me a favor responding to my post, because throughout the thread I have wanted him to explain what he is actually offering beyond just saying it's really good. What about it is good, why is it good, and how is it good are my questions. What makes it the BEST, not just for him, but for mankind, as he stated in his thread title. But so far, from my perspective, while he's explained to a degree why it's been great for him, he hasn't really offered a reason why it would be the best for everyone.
Would it be an accurate summary to say that you believe in God because of your revelatory, transformative experience? Have you had any other experiences or reasons to believe in God?
I am glad that you were able to get through your life crisis, and if religion is the tool that helped you, great. I truly hope that it continues to be a positive force in your life.
Can you understand that I don’t find your story convincing? It isn’t that I don’t believe you, I see no reason to doubt you. The thing that I don’t find convincing is that this is evidence for a god, or sufficient reason for me to believe in one.
How does your theistic belief effect your daily life? Does your belief cause you to ou sh your theology onto others? Do you care if I don’t believe? Do you desire to have children raised with a religious education? Does your belief causeyou to want creationism taught in schools, or to prevent sex Ed from being taught in schools? Do you object to LGBT individuals living their lives as they wish?
I know that those issues can be hotly debated. I am curious to see if your personal revelation extends to others.
Fish,
Allow me to open with this...
You come across like a very good man...a good guy. You make simple, straight forward comments that are just that---comments based on your analysis and thoughts. I can so respect that.
I honestly believe, were we to meet face to face, we'd like each other despite our opposing stands on this issue. As I relayed in another post...the best man in my wedding is an unbeliever. But, I love that guy like a brother...I so do.
Now, you ask if it bothers me that you don't believe? The answer to that is a resounding yes in that not only you but everyone reading this would come to the place in their life where they experience what I have in relation to God Almighty. Yet, does that change my opinion of you? Nada. I do wish you and yours only the best in life no matter what you do or do not do.
Now, Rafius likes to "poke fun" at my comments about praying for the folks here. But I will continue to do so for all including him...and, God will indeed answer this prayer. But, it will be on His timing, not mine...He won't waste the moment. He'll wait until a person's life and heart is most receptive to the possibility of His existence. He'll show that "Glimpse" I ask for.
Then, it's our call as to how we respond.
For now? I do what I did last Saturday I think? Or the one before...
I raise my coffee mug to you...salute'.
Thanks for putting that into words. I'm guessing that took a fair bit of courage on your part.
It's funny, I've written very similar things to this: "My outlook changed, my mind shifted, my thoughts improved. Things just started "falling into place". It truly was a supernatural process that changed everything about my life...".
I came to it from the opposite direction though. Where you thought you were tough and never asked for help, I cried out for help on a regular basis but felt guilty about that, because I didn't feel I deserved it. It wasn't until my death grip on the bible and my former Christian beliefs had been significantly loosened that I began to experience some improvement. And the floodgates really opened once I completely let go of those things.
What I take away from that is that God is willing to meet us wherever we are, and in whatever form best suits us, whether it's as Jesus, some other religious figure, or as something entirely different and, perhaps, unrecognizable as God to most people because it doesn't conform to traditional religious concepts of God. I think it may be that the former things are passing away, and God is revealing Godself in new ways to many. Perhaps some atheists are even further along the path than many religious people if they have truly let go of those religious concepts (although it seems to me from discussions on this forum, that many have not).
But, I don't say any of that to diminish what you have experienced. In whatever form God has made Godself evident to you and lifted you out of the pit you said you were in, that's what was perfect for you, and I'm happy for you. I hope you'll continue to follow where the God who is love leads you...
There's a biblical prayer that was instrumental in setting me free from the religious doctrines that did so much damage to me and stunted my spiritual growth for so long (no, I don't think Christianity stunts everyone's spiritual growth ). It's a prayer I still, even as an ex-Christian, keep close to my heart, as I'm sure you do:
For this reason I bow my knees before the Parent, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that God would grant you, according to the riches of God's glory, to be strengthened with power through God's Spirit in the inner person, so that Christ may dwell in your heart through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God...
Now to God who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, be the glory.
Well...I must tell you something that is entirely evident.
You have one of the sweetest, most gentle spirits I've ever encountered. Yes, even through text, it comes through so strongly. That is so awesome...
There was a time, even in my Christian walk, that I'd have ever posted something like my last post to you for a variety of reasons. These days? I now know life is not all about me...the world doesn't revolve around Casual Visitor...so, now I can now freely admit how arrogant, conceited, and ignorant I was in days of yon.
That prayer? I felt your words in my spirit. I think that's a God pleasing prayer.
Religious doctrine? I won't go too deeply into that other than to say man, and his doctrine, is a detriment to many things Christian. Christians bicker about the most inconsequential tidbits that result in a rift between domination's and detours the true message of Christ and His Love.
I could ramble on but there's no need to. I have a sense of quiet peace with you. Perhaps we're not entirely on the "same page" so to speak. But, ...we're walking similar path. Therefore, as I said to Fishbrains...I raise my coffee mug to you and say salute'....
Transponder...Now, you will probably rebuff me on this statement---but I'm gonna say it anyway---I think you're an awesomely likable person. You tend to resist such statements about yourself---but, 'tis true.
And, I can echo similar thoughts...though we may be near polar opposites on our beliefs and thoughts---you've always been respectful to me and, I greatly appreciate that.
I read many of your posts and appreciate the thought and logic of what you say.
I think you said something like this in a post from awhile back. "We may have to just come to the place where we both throw up our arms and simply agree to disagree..." It was something like that.
Now, I'll never stop trying to "show you the light" and you'll never stop, politely, pointing out the errors in my thought process...but,...I can live with that.
You're a good man. *nods* And...yeah...I continue to lift you up in prayer---you and yours.
Be well.
Provided we CAN (and we can) debate respectfully, we can agree to disagree before we start and when we both give in. I think that in a debate (discussion) I would probably score points on Data. You would rely on Faith. Which is where we and theists could agree to disagree. The problem is that Theists (or Bible -apologists or whatever) insist on trying to make data work for them. That is why we have the debates.
Well, atheists. Have any of you had a sudden conversions to Christianity since CV has been praying for us?
No...me neither!
Not even a hint of one. Now I don't deny for a second what happened to CV (our polite and respectful Christian - like Basil Fawlty said "We should have him stuffed") and to a few others, whether or not in uttermost despair or just letting Jesus into their hearts at the prompting of some doorstoop evangelists, but I've had 'voices', answered prayers and miracle healings (even though I wasn't praying) and some help is a very sticky situation, thanks to Corporate Greed, though from family, not from Jesus. And turning to Jesus was never ever an option that I even considered.
Some who seek (even desperately, as Per Shirina) don't find, and maybe a few find who don't seek, but it looks to me like you have to do a bit of pump -priming before you access the Living waters. Or one might call it 'self -brainwashing'.
Not to deprecate the experience, but just to say that it doesn't commend itself to me, let alone serve as evidence of anything other that the sorts of things that happen to humans.
CasualVisitor, I'm sure that you and even others see that your "praying for us" might be considered as caring and a generosity of spirit.
IWO, that's 'nice' of you but, don't you even consider that it only make you feel good about yourself and doesn't do a damn thing about either ' those' or 'what' you pray for?
I'm going to be generous and assume you didn't read the thread about prayer rather than having decided to just stay out of it.
CasualVisitor, I'm sure that you and even others see that your "praying for us" might be considered as caring and a generosity of spirit.
IWO, that's 'nice' of you but, don't you even consider that it only make you feel good about yourself and doesn't do a damn thing about either ' those' or 'what' you pray for?
I'm going to be generous and assume you didn't read the thread about prayer rather than having decided to just stay out of it.
Well, thank you for the generosity, I appreciate your consideration, No, I didn't see the Prayer Thread...I have hard enough time keeping up with this one.
Ok, so...I would have had something, at least similar, to your feelings about things like this in days gone by. I think mine would have been "Uh....ok....whatever dude..." Then, I'd have shaken my head, and probably tossed in an eye roll, at goofy Christians.
But...I do pray now because---I do simply care.
Do I get a "feel good" experience about it?
Actually, not so much. There are times when I have a positive reaction but....it's quite a chore at times in all truth. It's not something my "flesh" wants to do. But, in my spirit...I feel the urge and the want. I know, for me, its the right thing to do...so, I try my best with my meager abilities.
Well, thank you for the generosity, I appreciate your consideration, No, I didn't see the Prayer Thread...I have hard enough time keeping up with this one.
Ok, so...I would have had something, at least similar, to your feelings about things like this in days gone by. I think mine would have been "Uh....ok....whatever dude..." Then, I'd have shaken my head, and probably tossed in an eye roll, at goofy Christians.
But...I do pray now because---I do simply care.
Do I get a "feel good" experience about it?
Actually, not so much. There are times when I have a positive reaction but....it's quite a chore at times in all truth. It's not something my "flesh" wants to do. But, in my spirit...I feel the urge and the want. I know, for me, its the right thing to do...so, I try my best with my meager abilities.
I'll keep it at that.
Whatever makes you feel good about yourself is probably not altogether a bad thing.
I only 'hope', not 'pray', that you do other, more concrete things to help in this world than suffer "low level" martyrdom
Ya' know...actions speak louder than "words", especially private unspoken ones (like prayers)
And maybe, hopefully, you do.
In response to a post by phetaroi on the first page of the thread, Casual said this:
Thanks for the reminder. That was a while ago, and I had forgotten that detail. I believe that you and I have similar thoughts relative to CV. I see no reason to be antagonistic, and I am encouraged bu the sharing of ideas that represents the best threads in this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor
Fish,
Allow me to open with this...
You come across like a very good man...a good guy. You make simple, straight forward comments that are just that---comments based on your analysis and thoughts. I can so respect that.
I honestly believe, were we to meet face to face, we'd like each other despite our opposing stands on this issue. As I relayed in another post...the best man in my wedding is an unbeliever. But, I love that guy like a brother...I so do.
It’s entirely possible. I have several friends who are deeply religious. Some are Christians, others are a variety of other faiths. I am open about my atheism, they are open about their faith, but we share mutual respect and common interests.
Quote:
Now, you ask if it bothers me that you don't believe? The answer to that is a resounding yes in that not only you but everyone reading this would come to the place in their life where they experience what I have in relation to God Almighty. Yet, does that change my opinion of you? Nada. I do wish you and yours only the best in life no matter what you do or do not do.
Now, Rafius likes to "poke fun" at my comments about praying for the folks here. But I will continue to do so for all including him...and, God will indeed answer this prayer. But, it will be on His timing, not mine...He won't waste the moment. He'll wait until a person's life and heart is most receptive to the possibility of His existence. He'll show that "Glimpse" I ask for.
Then, it's our call as to how we respond.
For now? I do what I did last Saturday I think? Or the one before...
I raise my coffee mug to you...salute'.
Fair enough. For my part, I tend to be somewhat saddened by my friends who are religious. I cannot help but think that they would live more fulfilled, happier lives if they were atheists, and I do hope that they realize this one day. But I am not aggressive about it, limiting discussions of the topic to people and circumstances when it is mutually agreeable.
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). It's a prayer I still, even as an ex-Christian, keep close to my heart, as I'm sure you do:
You tend to resist such statements about yourself---but, 'tis true. 
