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Stable Carbon, Oxygen and such are actually "radioactive" they're just not as radioactive as the group of elements and isotopes we label "radionuclides."
Eventually, a stable Oxygen nucleus will eject a neutron. When that happens, the nucleus becomes unstable and the Oxygen nucleus will undergo spontaneous fission.
The resultant elements could be Lithium and Boron, or Carbon and Helium. It's anyone's guess, because we don't have a lot of data on it. Plutonium-239 generally fissions into Zirconium and Xenon, neither of which are harmful, but occasionally the daughter-products are other radionuclides, which are harmful.
Protons decay, too. They fission into a positron and neutral pion, and then they decay into gamma rays.
If the expansion of the Universe is Infinite, then eventually there will be nothing in the Universe, except Bismuth. Actually, I think it's Bismuth-209.
So, you'll have a Universe with nothing but Bismuth-209, because it is the most stable isotope, but eventually even that will decay.
My best guess would be Bismuth-209 decays into Cesium and Nickel. It could be other things. It could decay into Xenon and Copper.
So, the whole Universe is Cesium and Nickel and Xenon and Copper and perhaps Barium and Cobalt as well.
And even those will eventually decay.
And then you have an Infinite Universe of Nothing.
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Originally Posted by auralmack
And this is what God told them would happen when Israel rejects God as King...and forsake him and his ways:
Except that doesn't work.
I'm guessing you've never read the texts or don't understand them.
Manasseh was the most wicked king in the eyes of Yahweh, and yet Manasseh was blessed with wealth, fame, riches, glory, success and good health, living to a ripe old age and dying peacefully in his sleep.
On the other hand, Josiah was the most righteous king in the eyes of Yahweh, and for his efforts, he's slain on the battlefield, horribly mutilated, and the kingdom is destroyed and the Hebrews carted off into captivity.
Had you read and understood the texts, you would know that the Hebrews wrestled and struggled with that for centuries.
They just couldn't wrap their brains around the fact that good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people, and it's just part of Life and has nothing to do with any god-thing, especially since there is no god.
Also, if you read and understood the texts, you would know how the Hebrews resolved that conflict.
You just have to read the latter prophets.
What do the latter prophets say?
You don't need to worship Yahweh, you just need to take care of widows, and the sick and infirm and orphans and the poor.
That's a huge shift in theological thought, which was obviously lost upon you.
This kind of pantheistic or new-age interpretation of Jesus is not what real Christianity is about. The traditional/supernatural version is the more real one, and it is the more effective one for most people. It is also the kind that I believe Paul wrote about. I am trying to understand it better. I believed in it better as a child, and I also think it had more value in that form. I think that CS Lewis and Chuck Colson have helped to explain it.
This kind of pantheistic or new-age interpretation of Jesus is not what real Christianity is about. The traditional/supernatural version is the more real one, and it is the more effective one for most people. It is also the kind that I believe Paul wrote about. I am trying to understand it better. I believed in it better as a child, and I also think it had more value in that form. I think that CS Lewis and Chuck Colson have helped to explain it.
Christianity needs to change.
there is no need to try an understand dying and rising, for our sins in a supernatural way. as we use the word these days anyway.
Stable Carbon, Oxygen and such are actually "radioactive" they're just not as radioactive as the group of elements and isotopes we label "radionuclides."
Eventually, a stable Oxygen nucleus will eject a neutron. When that happens, the nucleus becomes unstable and the Oxygen nucleus will undergo spontaneous fission.
The resultant elements could be Lithium and Boron, or Carbon and Helium. It's anyone's guess, because we don't have a lot of data on it. Plutonium-239 generally fissions into Zirconium and Xenon, neither of which are harmful, but occasionally the daughter-products are other radionuclides, which are harmful.
Protons decay, too. They fission into a positron and neutral pion, and then they decay into gamma rays.
If the expansion of the Universe is Infinite, then eventually there will be nothing in the Universe, except Bismuth. Actually, I think it's Bismuth-209.
So, you'll have a Universe with nothing but Bismuth-209, because it is the most stable isotope, but eventually even that will decay.
My best guess would be Bismuth-209 decays into Cesium and Nickel. It could be other things. It could decay into Xenon and Copper.
So, the whole Universe is Cesium and Nickel and Xenon and Copper and perhaps Barium and Cobalt as well.
And even those will eventually decay.
And then you have an Infinite Universe of Nothing.
Except that doesn't work.
I'm guessing you've never read the texts or don't understand them.
Manasseh was the most wicked king in the eyes of Yahweh, and yet Manasseh was blessed with wealth, fame, riches, glory, success and good health, living to a ripe old age and dying peacefully in his sleep.
On the other hand, Josiah was the most righteous king in the eyes of Yahweh, and for his efforts, he's slain on the battlefield, horribly mutilated, and the kingdom is destroyed and the Hebrews carted off into captivity.
Had you read and understood the texts, you would know that the Hebrews wrestled and struggled with that for centuries.
They just couldn't wrap their brains around the fact that good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people, and it's just part of Life and has nothing to do with any god-thing, especially since there is no god.
Also, if you read and understood the texts, you would know how the Hebrews resolved that conflict.
You just have to read the latter prophets.
What do the latter prophets say?
You don't need to worship Yahweh, you just need to take care of widows, and the sick and infirm and orphans and the poor.
That's a huge shift in theological thought, which was obviously lost upon you.
there is no need to try an understand dying and rising, for our sins in a supernatural way. as we use the word these days anyway.
Perhaps dying and rising for our sins is something happening in a spiritual sense. To me, the fruit of Christianity speaks for itself. Those who tend to be the most fundamentalist seem to find a lot of help in it.
This kind of pantheistic or new-age interpretation of Jesus is not what real Christianity is about. The traditional/supernatural version is the more real one, and it is the more effective one for most people. It is also the kind that I believe Paul wrote about. I am trying to understand it better. I believed in it better as a child, and I also think it had more value in that form. I think that CS Lewis and Chuck Colson have helped to explain it.
It certainly is not what fundamentalists believe because they elevate the Bible over the Comforter (Holy Spirit) who is the ONLY reason I am a God believer. I became a believer because I met the Comforter in deep meditation and then eventually recognized the descriptions of Him in the Jesus narrative as the "mind of Christ." None of the supernatural stuff makes any sense whatsoever because there is no such thing as the supernatural, just what we currently do not understand. IMO, if Christianity continues to ignore the enormous advances in knowledge and understanding of life and our role in it since the ancient writings were recorded, it will continue to lose adherents.
The idea is patently ludicrous that the Almighty God responsible for everything especially all life and consciousness is primarily interested in us accepting ancient writings ABOUT Him. We can see what human evil and lack of love wreaks on life and our Reality and we can see how love COULD eliminate it. I met that love and I accept it as the TRUE NATURE of God as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. That is why I consider my interpretation of Christ's Gospel to be real Christianity.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-24-2019 at 05:24 PM..
Perhaps dying and rising for our sins is something happening in a spiritual sense. To me, the fruit of Christianity speaks for itself. Those who tend to be the most fundamentalist seem to find a lot of help in it.
If they changed the words "died for our sins", "go out and spread the word" (as in door to door type thinking), and taught to it in a spiritual sense it may work. yeah, some fundy's find help and function ... others use it as a weapon.
theist need to police their own. If you guys don't you'll just have to deal with somebody else doing it.
It was intended to highlight the fact that I am conversing with an entity, NOT mere chemical interactions.
You're wrong as ever.
You may converse with an amoeba, but it will not talk back, because it doesn't have the FOXP2 gene or the highly specialized brain cells interacting chemically to make use of the FOXP2 gene.
You may converse with plants, too, since they're also entities, but like the amoeba, they don't have the FOXP2 gene or the highly specialized brain cells interacting chemically.
You can call it whatever you want, but at the end of the day, "an entity" can converse only because they have highly specialized brain cells chemically interacting to enable consciousness and a FOXP2 gene to enable language and speech.
Neither require a god.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
That entity has cohesion and is more than the sum of the individual chemical activity that produces it.
But it functions only because of chemical activity, and you can't seem to wrap your brain around that reality.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Your shallow understanding of the phenomenon is obvious. And you would pretend that the individual chemical reactions are all that exists and no one is actually doing the thinking, etc.
The chemical reactions are all that exist.
That is a scientifically irrefutable fact.
Obviously, the facts are beyond your understanding, or you're being obtuse and refuse to admit it.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
which kind of negates your own existence as the Knower. I think more of myself than that. Duh!
So, in addition to not understanding physics or human biology and a great many other things, we can add philosophy to the list.
The term "the Knower" is commonly used in philosophical discussions and you would know that if you had ever taken a university course in philosophy (and obviously you haven't).
An instrument that puts ink on paper is Objective, but what that instrument is called, a ball-point pen, ein kugleschreiber (German) or un stilou (Romanian) is Subjective and totally dependent on the Knower.
If the Knower ceases to exist, the instrument that puts ink on paper still exists, because it is separate and apart from the Knower and it's existence isn't dependent on the Knower's existence.
See? That's how the term is used.
Feelings, emotions, beliefs, ideas and such all fall in the realm of Subjectivity, because they are all Subjective and totally dependent on the Knower, and once the Knower ceases to exist, they cease to exist, because they're wholly dependent on the Knower for existence. That's not to say that other Knowers cannot have the same or similar feelings, emotions, beliefs, ideas and such, but no one experiences things exactly in the same way.
The sight of an eviscerated body doesn't bother me, but some react emotionally or even physically, becoming nauseated, even vomiting or shaking uncontrollably or angry or sad or resigned or dismissive or even jocular reactions, and that's because it's totally Subjective, being entirely dependent on the Knower.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
interfere with the processes that produce YOU and you cannot manifest to anyone.
You just debunked your own hypothesis and proved my point.
All that you are is the result of chemical interactions among highly specialized brain cells.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The only connection YOU have with our Reality is the production facility that is the brain.
You just refuted your own hypothesis and proved my point again.
Chemical interactions among highly specialized brain cells process all the sensory inputs and make sense of them based on the Knower's historical experience. That largely forms the personality of the Knower.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Consciousness is the substrate within which our intellect forms and resides and the brain is essential to create the environment in which our intellect forms but that in no way controls what happens to the intellect once formed.
That's nothing but sophistry.
You've been beaten down so badly, you've been forced to interject something new into your nonsensical equation: "intellect."
Consciousness and intellect are concepts that are separate and apart.
Intellect requires consciousness, but consciousness does not require intellect and it doesn't create intellect.
There are conscious people who have no intellect, because the highly specialized brain cells are absent, or damaged or otherwise not functioning properly.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
As the composite product of chemical reactions (resonant neural activity) it, like fire, is no longer part of the combustible materials that produce it. It is in a different state that is no longer compatible with the material brain. Your shallow understanding and pretense to know what consciousness is or is not and your arrogant accusation about my knowledge of physics are beyond the pale.
Consciousness only exists within the brain. It cannot exist outside the brain. That is an irrefutable scientific fact.
All of your nonsense is predicated upon consciousness being an object existing separate and apart from the brain, when that is not the case nor could it ever be the case and you cannot prove otherwise.
Consciousness is a subject in the Subjective Realm, not an Object in the Objective Realm.
We could call consciouness salagadoola mechicka boola bibbidi-bobbidi-boo and it wouldn't change the fact that it isn't real and doesn't exist outside the brain.
Consciousness is like a soul which doesn't actually exist, either.
I suspect that is the actual basis of your claim, that humans have a soul, and you've just substituted "consciousness" for "soul."
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Everything you proclaim is true ONLY in the 5% of our Reality that we can directly measure.
Again, that's based on something you don't even understand.
The mass of a galaxy is calculated using a very simple formula:
M = (Orbital Velocity)^2 * (Distance from Center) / G
The orbital velocity is determined by look at the red-shift of Hydrogen at 21 cm (if I remember).
The observed mass is calculated by the luminosity of the galaxy. Anyone with half a brain can see that's inherently flawed.
The difference between the observed mass and the calculated mass leads some scientists to believe that there's some "dark matter/energy" we cannot see that makes up the "missing mass."
Well, there is "dark matter" we cannot see.
We cannot see free floating atoms/diatoms, dust, particles, chunks of ice, chunks of rock, meteors, asteroids, comets, moonlets, moons, planetoids, planets, red dwarves, white dwarves, brown dwarves, black dwarves, neutron stars and black-holes.
Red dwarves are believed to be the most common star, but they're impossible to see in other galaxies, and they're incredibly difficult to detect in our own galaxy.
G/K-Class stars are the next most common, like our Sun. Current scientific paradigm is just plain wrong. G/K-Class stars because of the way in which they form lend themselves to the formation of planets, so every G/K-Class star has 6-12 planets.
There are 10,000 G/K-Class stars within 50 light years of Earth, so that means 60,000 to 120,000 planets within 50 light years of Earth.
But, scientists don't believe that, because they think our Solar System is "special" and "unique."
Why? Well, that's what religion does.
Anyway, the point is this "dark matter" that you keep yipping and yapping about is in the galaxy, not outside the galaxy.
Get it?
If it was outside the galaxy, it wouldn't have any effect on the orbital speed of the galaxy.
That's how little you understand physics.
It also refutes your claims that all this "dark matter" is interconnected.
And the "dark energy" is a gravitational force, not "EM-like energy" and it never will be "EM-like energy" no matter how long you pole-dance.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
An IQ test is NOT a direct measure of the intellect taking the test any more than the gravitational effects of dark matter on galaxies is a direct measure of dark matter, or than the rate of expansion of space is a direct measure of the dark energy causing it.
An IQ test is a direct measure, because it reflects the ability of the Knower to process information.
I hope you're not suggesting that someone with an IQ of 75 is going to be a surgeon, because that's just not gonna happen.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
They are indirect measures and we do not know what they are.
It makes no difference, because this "dark matter/energy" is not conscious and has no bearing or impact on us or on our consciousness or our intellect or any other bizarre thing you might inject into the equation, and it isn't even inter-connected.
Show us where this "dark matter/energy" is on Earth.
Because if it's not on Earth, then your whole premises fails.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
"It is clear that you have engaged in little to no deep contemplation of the philosophical implications of consciousness or dark energy or dark matter.
Why would I want to?
It's nonsensical sophistry coming from a person who had a vision that no one else has had that is tantamount to X-Moses' conversation with a pillar of smoke (or talking donkey or snake).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I will rephrase your assertion into the only one you can legitimately make. There are no MEASURABLE electromagnetic forces outside of the MEASURED electromagnetic spectrum.
Again, that's a nonsensical statement made by someone who doesn't understand physics.
Which part of "the entire spectrum is known" do you not understand?
The EM spectrum is photon particle waves that can be expressed as a frequency or as a wavelength (= c/f where "c" is the speed of light).
There is nothing before gamma rays, which have the shortest wavelengths, the highest frequencies and the greatest amount of energy.
You wouldn't want anything before gamma rays, because gamma rays are deadly to organic life, especially humans.
On the other side of the spectrum, radio waves have longer wavelengths and lower frequencies and very little energy.
ELF is Extremely Low Frequency, 3 to 30 Hertz (compared to 7 * 10^14 Hertz for colors).
The brain produces in the range of 10 to 100 Hertz, but it barely has the energy to penetrate the skull-bone.
Yeah, you can go to 1 Herz and the lower to 1 milliHertz and even lower to 1 nanoHertz, but the energy decreases as you do, and yes theoretically you can get even small as you approach Zero but there's no energy.
Those waves couldn't penetrate Earth's magnetosphere, or Earth's atmosphere or your home, office, car and they damn sure don't have enough energy to penetrate your skull-bone.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I left this intact because it reveals that you only address what we can currently measure. When you can block dark energy or dark matter, we can talk again about an experiment.
It doesn't matter what we can and cannot measure.
There's no connection between the human brain and your nonsense.
But it functions only because of chemical activity, and you can't seem to wrap your brain around that reality.
The only one having trouble wrapping their brain around these deep issues and hiding under the word Subjective is YOU! To be subjective there has to be a Subject (Knower) that exists but you pretend there is no such thing, essentially proclaiming YOU do not exist to Know anything. You are buried under these objective things around us, no wonder you are having such difficulty grasping these deeply subjective issues.
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The chemical reactions are all that exist.
That is a scientifically irrefutable fact.
So, in addition to not understanding physics or human biology and a great many other things, we can add philosophy to the list.
The term "the Knower" is commonly used in philosophical discussions and you would know that if you had ever taken a university course in philosophy (and obviously you haven't).
An instrument that puts ink on paper is Objective, but what that instrument is called, a ball-point pen, ein kugleschreiber (German) or un stilou (Romanian) is Subjective and totally dependent on the Knower.
If the Knower ceases to exist, the instrument that puts ink on paper still exists, because it is separate and apart from the Knower and its existence isn't dependent on the Knower's existence.
See? That's how the term is used.
Feelings, emotions, beliefs, ideas and such all fall in the realm of Subjectivity, because they are all Subjective and totally dependent on the Knower, and once the Knower ceases to exist, they cease to exist, because they're wholly dependent on the Knower for existence. That's not to say that other Knowers cannot have the same or similar feelings, emotions, beliefs, ideas and such, but no one experiences things exactly in the same way.
Not only is it NOT true that the chemical reactions are all that exist given that even you acknowledge the Subjective exists, but it is also not remotely scientifically irrefutable fact. You have an awfully bad habit of claiming things about others that you simply do not and cannot know about them or their experiences. The term Knower is what this IS all about, what you refuse to examine seriously, and what some scientists call the homunculus that they consider an illusion. But none of this is irrefutable scientific fact.
Your pretense is just silly that somehow proclaiming something exists subjectively means it doesn't really exist. For ANYTHING to manifest within our Reality it MUST exist and that applies to the Knower or God or YOU. What is at issue is WHERE in our Reality it actually resides - what we call its locus. Fields are the only locus for those things we objectively know manifest as energy/mass/momentum and they are aggregations of vibratory phenomena at the basest level. The cohesive thinking Knower only objectively manifests indirectly through its effects so where does it actually reside within our Reality? You want to say in the chemical reactions, but as reactions, like fire, they have no cohesive substance or locus capable of doing the thinking unless they are an actual entity existing within some field - what I call the consciousness field of God (or unified field).
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You just debunked your own hypothesis and proved my point.
All that you are is the result of chemical interactions among highly specialized brain cells.
Wrong. I the Knower manifest in Reality through the chemical interactions among highly specialized brain cells but I reside in the consciousness field.
Quote:
You just refuted your own hypothesis and proved my point again.
Chemical interactions among highly specialized brain cells process all the sensory inputs and make sense of them based on the Knower's historical experience. That largely forms the personality of the Knower.
You just invoked the Knower you do not think actually exists to make sense of the chemical interactions and the historical record of them in the experience of the Knower.
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That's nothing but sophistry.
You've been beaten down so badly, you've been forced to interject something new into your nonsensical equation: "intellect."
Consciousness and intellect are concepts that are separate and apart.
Intellect requires consciousness, but consciousness does not require intellect and it doesn't create intellect.
There are conscious people who have no intellect because the highly specialized brain cells are absent, or damaged or otherwise not functioning properly.
You are seriously confused here between the objective neuronal activity that manifests the substrate within which intellect resides and the intellect (Knower) itself. If you in any way interfere with the objective things that manifest the substrate you will, of course, interfere with the intellect's ability to interact with Reality in an identifiable way.
Quote:
Consciousness only exists within the brain. It cannot exist outside the brain. That is an irrefutable scientific fact.
All of your nonsense is predicated upon consciousness being an object existing separate and apart from the brain when that is not the case nor could it ever be the case and you cannot prove otherwise.
Yet, again you overstate your case. None of this is irrefutable scientific fact. The mental "fire" that is created within the brain ("combustibles") cannot reside with the matter of the brain because as the composite of reactions it is no longer matter, yet it thinks therefore it exists.
Quote:
Consciousness is a subject in the Subjective Realm, not an Object in the Objective Realm.
There is only ONE Realm and that is our Reality within which both forms of phenomena exist. The subjective requires the existence of an objectively inexplicable "subject" producing the subjectivity that makes you uncomfortable so you dismiss it as an illusion.
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<snip>
It doesn't matter what we can and cannot measure.
There's no connection between the human brain and your nonsense.
Elvis has obviously left the building and has resorted to bloviation about the 95% of our Reality that cannot be measured and just completely dismisses it all.
I do know make believe when I see it though. What you are peddling is derived entirely from the imagination.
According to Judeo/Christian doctrine the overriding attributes of God are that He is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. To be omnipotent means to accomplish whatever is desired, without fail. Yet scripture also indicates that God sometimes fails to get the results He intends to gets, becomes angry, and changes His mind.
According to Judeo/Christian doctrine God is love, and is incapable of evil. Yet scripture (Isaiah 45:7) specifically says that God CREATES EVIL. Numbers 31:15-18, Joshua 6:20-21, Joshua 11:19-2, Ezekiel 9:4-7 detail God ordering that children and babies should be hacked to death with swords. Such actions cannot be reconciled with any concept of "love."
The God of the Bible, the one detailed in scripture, ]i]is entirely contradictory.[/i] Which forces each individual believer to resort of making up a concept of God that makes sense to them as they go along. Each person makes up a version of God that conforms to that individual's personal view of God. A view of God that makes the most sense to them personally. AND THIS IS GOD IN A NUTSHELL. God is entirely MADE UP AND ASSUMED TO EXIST!
The Bible was written over the course of centuries by numerous different individuals. The God each person chooses to believe in cannot be reconciled in scripture. Because the books of the Bible represent the view of God that was held by the individual who wrote that particular book. Which results in scripture being contradictory. As a result the concept of God that each person believes in necessarily conforms to the imaginary concept of what each person is convinced that the God they prefer to believe in must necessarily be. And that is the process of make believe. That's how make believe works. The God of the Bible is make believe. As were ALL of the historical Gods. These individual concepts of God exist only in the imagination of each individual believer.
Religions are devised by imagining what is true, declaring it to be so, and then contriving to believe in it. Make believe. These individual views of God tend to be derived from whatever religious belief, whatever make believe view of reality, the individual was indoctrinated into by their parents. Which is why we have Christians and Jews, Muslims and Hindus, Buddhists and, well thousands of other beliefs, many of which were once held with the utmost of devotion but which have fallen into disuse over the centuries.
The Word of God still tells you to be good honest people, Don't kill...oops, I'm hungry, I'm starving, I kill and eat an animal..."God had respect for that." But fact is, God desired you to have no need to kill, yet even today men love the hunt and the kill, NOT GOD! Who is the bloodthirsty one here? And the commandment was changed second time around to, "Do not murder." Why? Because God likes killing and murdering?
Yet your stupid imaginary gods are liars, god said to go smash your babies against the rocks and then kill each other? Your stupid imaginary killer god, is the results of your own confusion and inability to follow a line of simple logic. Who smashed the babies upon the rocks? Men or God, or that wicked mixed up gods of your own lack of thinking, and you took the babies in your own hands and smashed them against the rocks? Your lack of evidence is God did it...how? Yet you blame the very one that told you not to do those things. You stray, and commit the deeds, and blame God, or some devil, or your neighbors, and anything but the truth is acceptable for you.
And; AND YOUR killer god Your NUTSHELL: is entirely MADE UP AND ASSUMED TO EXIST! Your TiredNonsense! Your killergod or many killer gods only exist in your own mind as you, men as gods.
Your whole concept about God makes no sense, lacks reason, no understanding,your mind is in total conflict: God say's don't kill = man is a killer with evidence, and he claims God told him to do it. God made him do it...which you and I both know is a lie. And even today, men are claiming god wants them to kill you...and that proves God doesn't exist to silly you, but it proves to me what God is saying, "Men are liars."
YOU and YOUR IMAGINARY CONCEPT of YOUR GOD in your head is because you know nothing about the WORD GOD, or it's source.
In the world today, you go search for the truth, one says this, another says that, fools pick and choose one or the other and fight about it... I spent my time searching for the meaning of the words...now I have decided, and know, based upon reasoning; you know nothing about God.
Understanding came via Jesus; Moses had the commandments; which one actually did God's word? The murderer with the commandments in his hands, or the one with the commandments in his heart?
Jesus walked in the path of God. Moses didn't fully understand no more than many of us today do. Yet, you need to claim that God and Jesus smashed babies heads against the rocks; and not Moses or other nonthinking men smashed babies heads against the rocks. Men did it, men devils as liars did it, men and a man's desire, for what I don't know, caused it. That's obvious.
God told me to kill, to murder, to steal...God told me do it...is a tired worn out defense for your nonsense assumptions and inability to divide good from evil, and a lie from the truth of what is actually written. the truth of the matter seems to elude you, a little to subtle for you to comprehend.
The origin of Satan the word: "Now the serpent [that lying tongue], was more subtly than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made."
Satan = man with that lying deceiving treacherous tongue...is what deceives you. Should God be responsible for every foul word that flies from your lips? all the blood men shed with their hands? You had no choice but to kill to accomplish your own desires?
Go fish.
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