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When you have to go to the extreme to make a point (which you admit you are doing), then you probably don't have a very cogent point.
When you can't survive a test of an extreme case, then your position will rely on the subjective "drawing of lines" and no two people will agree on what is extreme and what isn't. If a rule doesn't work at the extreme, then it doesn't work.
While I admit to taking an extreme example (principles are rarely tested by moderation) I don't think it is equivalent to a non-prayer case. Can you explain why there would be an a priori expectation that a home owners' meeting would have prayer as a necessary ritual practice?
I'm just telling you something that I actually experienced for the last 9 years.
I'm just telling you something that I actually experienced for the last 9 years.
As am I.
The court cases are now proving that, when push comes to shove, the two freedoms are in conflict. Maybe 20 years ago, or 50, no one thought this extreme would come to pass, so the laws seemed reasonable and reconcilable. But the extreme is now more commonplace, and the test shows that the system is flawed.
The court cases are now proving that, when push comes to shove, the two freedoms are in conflict. Maybe 20 years ago, or 50, no one thought this extreme would come to pass, so the laws seemed reasonable and reconcilable. But the extreme is now more commonplace, and the test shows that the system is flawed.
I don't think you are. Do you make torahs for a living? Did someone want to come in and have one made as wall paper? Is this a sideline from your position as a teacher?
When you can't survive a test of an extreme case, then your position will rely on the subjective "drawing of lines" and no two people will agree on what is extreme and what isn't. If a rule doesn't work at the extreme, then it doesn't work.
But that's what court rulings are for. Where two sides can't agree, then a judgement has to be made on where to draw the line. This is what negotiation between two sides who can't agree on a compromise is all about and often requires calling in an impartial (or someone who has taken bribes from both sides) adjudicator to come to a compromise.
Another bad analogy.
If one prints the Torah as a book and does not make wallpaper, the request can be easily and legally refused.
More pertinent would be if you do routinely print the Torah as a wallpaper, then you would discriminate if you wouldn't sell it to a Christian or atheist, for instance.
I don't think you are. Do you make torahs for a living? Did someone want to come in and have one made as wall paper? Is this a sideline from your position as a teacher?
But that's what court rulings are for. Where two sides can't agree, then a judgement has to be made on where to draw the line. This is what negotiation between two sides who can't agree on a compromise is all about and often requires calling in an impartial (or someone who has taken bribes from both sides) adjudicator is called in.
But that's the heart of the problem. Court rulings have to reconcile two laws which create this tension, and have to figure out, case by case, which freedom is more persuasive. That means that in any case, one freedom will be lost.
Another bad analogy.
If one prints the Torah as a book and does not make wallpaper, the request can be easily and legally refused.
More pertinent would be if you do routinely print the Torah as a wallpaper, then you would discriminate if you wouldn't sell it to a Christian or atheist, for instance.
But one does not print the torah as a book. One writes it by hand to be a ritual object.
Interesting other hypothetical. What if a Jewish owner of a grocery store refuses to sell non-kosher food to a Jew because he is religiously forbidden to facilitate a Jew's breaking of Kosher eating laws.
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