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In another thread Iwasmadenew seems to think that supernatural explanations are superior to material explanations. He doesn’t want to engage there, so here is a thread dedicated to the discussion of those topics.
For context:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
I did make an argument in my own words (which is a rich accusation coming from a person who posts endless YouTube videos rather than responding to posts). In fact, you partially responded to my argument.
My knowledge of physical laws and processes is basic undergrad stuff. Nothing exceptional. However, my observation of the world around us confirms that our scientific community has a pretty solid understanding of the material world. As evidence of this understanding, I put forth refrigeration, antibiotics, powered flight, open heart surgery, the Internet, hydraulics, satellites, photography (both digital and physical), the electrical distribution grid, and metallurgy. I could give more examples, but I think that these suffice as proof that humanity knows a fair bit about the material world. Our ability to not only learn about it, but manipulate it, is testimony to the consistency and repeatability of the scientific method, which is based on the material world.
Let’s look at this another way. Choosing the year 325 CE because that was the date of the first Council of Nicaea, we can compare the technological advances based on the material world to the supernatural advances based on the Church.
Material advances are myriad. I listed just a few fields above. Supernatural advances are... nonexistent. In fact, one could argue that our understanding of the spiritual or supernatural realm has actually gone backwards. The Church at the time of Nicaea splintered into eastern and western rites, then Protestantism, then modern offshoots such as JW and LDS. Non-Christian theologies are also flourishing, from weird ones like Scientology to major world religions like Islam (which has splinter sects of its own).
We have even made advances in human social sciences. As fuzzy as they can be sometimes, we know much more about psychology, sociology and economics than we did 1700 years ago.
If the supernatural is a real thing, why is it completely stagnant when human knowledge in EVERY OTHER AREA advances? Where is the ecclesiastical equivalent of the iPad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
I'm happy to explore this topic more with you, but it's off topic for this thread. Start a new thread on the topic of Materialism and I'll join you there.
That isn't how it works O Holy Warrior who doesn't believe in it. It is the same fallacy that is refuted with the CSI apologetic. If we could only credit what was in front of our eyes (and saying they lie doesn't do That argument much good, does it?) then no murder could be solved as the forensic evidence would count for nothing and if we didn't see the murder happen before '500 all together' there's no case.
Or more relevant, all the archaeology, palaeontology and geology plus astronomy and Cosmology counts for nothing as the study of the remaining clues don't matter if it didn't happen in front of our Lying Eyes.
But if we are applying your remarks to Cosmic origins, then what is not observed is no evidence and nobody knows. Which is the right answer, not 'It has to be a god' (name your own).
Which may after all have been what you were arguing anyway, in which case, I agree.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-15-2020 at 02:58 PM..
In another thread Iwasmadenew seems to think that supernatural explanations are superior to material explanations. He doesn’t want to engage there, so here is a thread dedicated to the discussion of those topics.
For context:
IWMN, I await your response.
Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised you started this thread. Thank you.
This doesn't need to be as adversarial as the average R&S thread.
Can we agree on a civil, two-way discussion and both try to stay on topic and avoid being distracted by other commenters?
Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised you started this thread. Thank you.
This doesn't need to be as adversarial as the average R&S thread.
Can we agree on a civil, two-way discussion and both try to stay on topic and avoid being distracted by other commenters?
Well, part of the fun of a discussion forum is engaging with people, so I can’t say I am not willing to respond to others. With that being said, yes I am willing to engage directly with you. Let’s make sure it is a two way discussion, which means responding to points raised.
I believe my OP includes lots of info. Based on that OP, can you give a satisfactory answer as to why you believe the supernatural has explanatory power, or alternately, even exists.
there is no super natural past the the meaning of the word.
god claims that can be worked back to the standard model or more valid than ones that don't. People that deny every claim because they need to fight religion are less valid than god claims that are linked into the standard model. People that have to shun god claims that are reasonable claims based on the link to the standard are deceitful. stay away from them.
People that deny every claim because they need to fight atheism are less valid than god claims that are linked into the standard model. People that have to shun god claims that are reasonable claims based on the link to the standard but don't match a religion are deceitful. stay away from them.
What you see is what you get. If the stated action cannot be replicated, don't believe your lying eyes.
That's not it. there are records because they were the first to do it and not many ever get close again.
"I know what I saw". well, they have done studies on what people know they saw. Five people can witness the same event. Right after the event there are five different versions, at least.
as time passes, what they know they saw changes even more.
whisper down the lane is an excellent example of religion's claims.
That's not it. there are records because they were the first to do it and not many ever get close again.
"I know what I saw". well, they have done studies on what people know they saw. Five people can witness the same event. Right after the event there are five different versions, at least.
as time passes, what they know they saw changes even more.
whisper down the lane is an excellent example of religion's claims.
In another thread Iwasmadenew seems to think that supernatural explanations are superior to material explanations. He doesn’t want to engage there, so here is a thread dedicated to the discussion of those topics.
For context:
IWMN, I await your response.
hey, you used my notion to check reliability ...my process made a cell phone what does religion's process make?
Well, part of the fun of a discussion forum is engaging with people, so I can’t say I am not willing to respond to others. With that being said, yes I am willing to engage directly with you. Let’s make sure it is a two way discussion, which means responding to points raised.
I believe my OP includes lots of info. Based on that OP, can you give a satisfactory answer as to why you believe the supernatural has explanatory power, or alternately, even exists.
Go to it, lads, I shall watch with interest (mind you, Iwash has had this argument once before) and keep out of it, for my part.
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