Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (Buddhism, disciple, hell)
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The St. Thomas Christians in India make that claim. I have no reason to doubt their traditions. They were originally evangelized by Thomas himself. The quasi-historical Acts of Thomas also substantiates this.
There are various accounts of Thomas's life. There also accounts of his gospel being expunged until it was discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Link to Dead Sea Scrolls. There are many other. Gospel of Thomas
The most obvious is the account of the martyrdom of James in Acts 12. Peter is said to have been martyred in Rome, Andrew is said to have been martyred in Greece, Thomas was martyred in India... They were all killed for religious reasons.
Wrong James. Peter is killed in Rome, but for not praying to the Roman gods. Andrew does not die for his beliefs. Thomas is killed for some unknown reason.
Eusebius claimed 11 disciples were killed, Hippolytus of Rome says only 5. Both Bartholomew and Simon the Zealot died 3 times, with Mathias being killed only once, but also managing to also die of natural causes.
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Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
Interesting. You seem to be claiming several things here:
1) Joseph Smith completely fabricated his vision of Moroni and knew he was lying, etc
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Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
2) His motivation for founding Mormonism was pure (i.e. making the world a better place) rather than for his own sexual gratification and/or potential personal gain
No, making the world a better place is just one reason why people would die for a lie. It is not the reason Joseph Smith died.
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Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
3) His death had to do with religious convictions rather than power motives / illegal acts of overt violence
No, I am just giving you one example of someone who would rather die for his lie than admit he was faking it. I am not talking about his actual death.
No, I am just giving you one example of someone who would rather die for his lie than admit he was faking it. I am not talking about his actual death.
Yes, human pride can be a powerful thing, and it's certainly feasible that a few would rather die than admit to a lie; but all or most of them? And on top of that, to have kept the lie a successfully guarded secret for their entire life? Maybe I'm too cynical, but I don't find that to be a realistic proposition.
There are various accounts of Thomas's life. There also accounts of his gospel being expunged until it was discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Link to Dead Sea Scrolls. There are many other. Gospel of Thomas
The Dead Sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi scrolls are two different finds.
Yes, human pride can be a powerful thing, and it's certainly feasible that a few would rather die than admit to a lie; but all or most of them? And on top of that, to have kept the lie a successfully guarded secret for their entire life? Maybe I'm too cynical, but I don't find that to be a realistic proposition.
That presumes 1) it was a lie, and 2) that all of them knew it was a lie. And if any one was willing to die for a lie for the better good, they would be willing to keep that secret for their entire life.
That presumes 1) it was a lie, and 2) that all of them knew it was a lie. And if any one was willing to die for a lie for the better good, they would be willing to keep that secret for their entire life.
Yeah, that doesn't sound reasonable to me. If the Resurrection didn't happen, then there is no "better good" in lying about it.
No, I am saying the death, burial and resurrection were revealed in the OT, not prophesied.
What's the difference between the bolded?
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