Richard Dawkins's belief scale,where do you belong? (Buddhism, translation, principle)
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Then there's no sense of you continually touting your scientific background. It's irrelevant.
It is hardly irrelevant since my extrapolations use existing science to posit how we and our existence can possibly be explained as "offspring" of God. They PROVE nothing but establish a plausible explanation beyond just religious "faith," IMO.
That is abundantly clear, mensa! But it is not scientists who demand the unobtainable evidence of the existence of God here. It is the atheists who misunderstand the existing evidence and think it is NOT evidence of God (something that cannot be determined by science). The evidence question is a hijack in any R&S forum.
You skipped over the single important point. YOU seem to think it is evidence of God, but nobody else does, yet you keep derailing threads with this non-scientific nonsense. You claim to smart enough to know better.
It is hardly irrelevant since my extrapolations use existing science to posit how we and our existence can possibly be explained as "offspring" of God. They PROVE nothing but establish a plausible explanation beyond just religious "faith," IMO.
No, they don't. They establish nothing, and whatever fantasies you have concocted have nothing to do with science.
No, it is based on his self-reported personal subjective experience, which is not evidence, other than arguably for himself alone.
Contrary to what Mystic and others claim, I do not "demand" evidence like it is my personal right or something. I simply require it to buy into their beliefs -- which IS my decision to make.
I don't really have a strong response to this post other than the scale being nothing more than descriptive. Even then, it doesn't go through any kind of scientific discipline and the participants are self-selecting. Any person who chooses the extreme ends is saying they don't have faith, they have evidence. From their perspective, that already separates them from #2. One of the reasons for not showing the evidence is because the claim is that atheists will say "not God." Well, I'm pretty sure devout believers of other faiths will say "not God" as well when #1 claims to have a new gospel. From our collective perspective, #1 crosses into #2 because they have made the assumption that their experience was God. Since it is culturally acceptable - in fact, encouraged - to be sure of oneself, the other foot is planted in #1. Nodding one's head to #1 is just being culturally nice, but nobody really has to be. It is culturally acceptable to ask for evidence when a person claims to have it and to claim otherwise is just trying to obfuscate coherence.
Well, that was a long response and I just used the word obfuscate for the first time (thanks to Learme). Now if I can pronounce it...that is a different challenge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
I don't think I have heard that calculus before.
The bolded above is insightful, I think, in understanding the divide between believers and unbelievers. There is always this brooding presence in the mix, and it scarcely matters if it's imagined or in any sense real, because all that's necessary for a dysfunctional relationship is for one person to act as if it's real, and then it effects the dynamic. You can't simply negotiate with or adapt to the other person because their Invisible Friend is along for the ride.
Come to think of it, a lot of how my fellow Christians related to the world was to act out roles AS IF god were actually involved. And that level of investment in god-ideas explains their unwillingness to let go of them. In your case, it was less stressful to let go than to keep on feeling like you deserved bad things; in my case it was less stressful to let go than to keep on being disappointed in the mismatch between what I expected as a child of god and what I got -- which is just the same problem really without the assumption that I was, personally, bad or undeserving. You thought you got what you deserved, I thought I got what I didn't deserve -- it's the same net effect with a different emotional valence: shame vs disappointment.
Great post. I don't have anything else to add except for two things. One, the bolded is a nice way of referring to my mental gymnastics. Two, I like your use of the phrase "emotional valence."
I am not sure is i answered the poll but i would say I am #1, I know there is Divinity, and I know I am the self and not my body-mind-complex. This knowledge is intuitive, an understanding, and not arrived by any other means other than one’s own study, understanding, and intuition. The evidence can be found only by one’s own effort. It is like swimming. You know you will float only after you jump in to the water. It would be silly for atheists to ask for evidence. The evidence is available to them, they only need to make the effort.
Yes. However, I can also have the intuitive understanding that when an event happens, God doesn't have to be a part of it. Inserting God has not brought clarity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I like this. Saw a psychic on a whim at a crystal show last fall. She said a lot of things that made me snicker, but one thing she said stuck with me. "Words are spells." There is some truth in that in a way that fits in with your remarks that I bolded.
Ine really cool fact is that Gospel is related to the word spell. According to one source, spel has a denotation of message or story.
Yes. However, I can also have the intuitive understanding that when an event happens, God doesn't have to be a part of it. Inserting God has not brought clarity.
Ine really cool fact is that Gospel is related to the word spell. According to one source, spel has a denotation of message or story.
I think the concept of God that some Christians hold, that of an anthropomorphic creator and punishing/rewarding God, is difficult to handle for any mature, adult, mind. I find the understanding of the Self within as the same Divinity out there brings comfort and conviction. While how we choose to act is under our control, the result of the action is not. That uncertainty is Divinity. That brings a comfort and security.
Per Vedanta as well, words hold a power and that power is released only when the meaning is understood. That understanding is Divinity. This is the meaning behind mantras. The words sink in, when we allow ourselves open to it, and effect change.
You have explained nothing. You have ASSUMED that the evidence we have is NOT evidence of God because you have no way to make that determination scientifically.
So you admit you have no extra evidence that it IS.
Well done, you have admitted it is you presuming things, and the default goes to what we do know (not presume).
So atheists have a missing or defecting circuitry cabinet. I wonder why a god who cares about people allows that to happen in the first place? Or maybe you have some elaborate explanation of how I had it coming.
Atheists feel that theists often lack circuitry, too -- in both the logic and empathy departments. So at least we have that much in common.
IDK though about the "no evidence or philosophical arguments" will reach them statement. The evidence or arguments that you possess does not cover the gamut of what is possible, nor intersects with what is needed. Your evidence is so bad as to be nonexistent and your arguments are so bad that they simply can't land. Yet you are implacably convinced it is ironclad evidence and airtight arguments. So it goes! You guys demand we accept your evidence and arguments and we restate our evidentiary standards and the objections we actually need addressed, and you just pretend we're defective rather than practice the Christian ethos of reaching the "lost", as Paul put it, "by any means necessary".
I mean surely if god loves everyone, including atheists ... surely he has SOME way to win them over? No? Oh well.
I believe God has done so for many of you. By rejecting the primitive, barbaric, and absurd beliefs about God you reveal a spiritual maturity, depth, and independent moral judgment that is actually what God wants from us, IMO.
I believe God has done so for many of you. By rejecting the primitive, barbaric, and absurd beliefs about God you reveal a spiritual maturity, depth, and independent moral judgment that is actually what God wants from us, IMO.
I think the concept of God that some Christians hold, that of an anthropomorphic creator and punishing/rewarding God, is difficult to handle for any mature, adult, mind. I find the understanding of the Self within as the same Divinity out there brings comfort and conviction. While how we choose to act is under our control, the result of the action is not. That uncertainty is Divinity. That brings a comfort and security.
Per Vedanta as well, words hold a power and that power is released only when the meaning is understood. That understanding is Divinity. This is the meaning behind mantras. The words sink in, when we allow ourselves open to it, and effect change.
No.
Essentially what you're communicating -- probably unintentionally -- is what christians "hold" is "difficult to handle for any mature, adult, mind", but what YOU are saying is not "difficult to handle for any mature, adult, mind"...because it's what you believe. We have christians right on this site who can't believe how some of us can't see what they see, unable to understand that it's a matter of perspective.
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