The Beginning of Life (genesis, atheist, bible, quote)
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Again, we can only observe and detect physical-material things. If you or anyone else can show evidence immaterial things or an immaterial realm exists I'll accept it as a plausible explanation. Until then it's at best speculative and fantastical at worst.
Understand? All we're asking for is evidence. So far all you're arguing is essentially, 'If something is unknown or can't be explained maybe god is the explanation.' Do you understand why this is so scientifically unconvincing?
Is that so? we can detect laws in operation but cannot detect the law itself. What about your own thoughts are they a material thing or an immaterial thing? What about life itself is it a material thing or an immaterial thing? what is the deference between a live cow and a dead one, they are both made from the same material?
Oh, I see. You talk nonsense, and when I say I don't get it, you use that as an excuse to pretend that I am incapable of understanding. Don't you Believers have anything other than dirty tricks as an argument?
How is pointing out your own words a dirty trick? Perhaps you should keep some type of journal in order that you might remember what all you've stated.
Is that so? we can detect laws in operation but cannot detect the law itself. What about your own thoughts are they a material thing or an immaterial thing? What about life itself is it a material thing or an immaterial thing? what is the deference between a live cow and a dead one, they are both made from the same material?
Laws describe observations of how the physical world consistently behaves, so detecting laws in operation is detecting the law itself.
My thoughts are a product of my brain, which a physical structure.
Life is an identifiable, finite physical process. While a recently deceased cow (or any organism) is composed of the same material it was when alive the process of life has stopped. It's like when you turn off a light; the light is composed of the same material, but the electrical process of illumination has ceased.
Even if the answers were unknown how is that evidence of god? Speaking of consistent laws, you seem to consistently evade this question.
I don't think you know what those terms mean. If I state there's no evidence of leprechauns, so I don't believe they exist, where's the straw-man or ad hominem fallacy?
As best I can tell god is no different than leprechauns. I subscribe to the scientific paradigm since it consistently produces a more accurate, comprehensive understanding of reality than any other by far.
You are fine to subscribe to whatever you wish. This is a religion and spirituality forum; therefore, religion and spirituality is discussed.
Laws describe observations of how the physical world consistently behaves, so detecting laws in operation is detecting the law itself.
But what is it you are detecting? is the law made of matter or energy? is it materialistic or naturalistic? or is it immaterial, something that is not seen but has an effect that can be observed?
Lets take the laws of physics as an example.
The laws of physics are not physical. They are not made of matter and they're not made of energy. The laws of physics do not have temperature, density, color, mass, volume, shape, a melting point, hardness, odor, length, etc. They do not possess kinetic, potential, thermal, elastic, chemical, or radiant energy. So then if the law lacks all these things what makes you believe it is materialistic and not immaterial? It seem to me that the law lacks any of the characteristic that would make it a natural or materialistic.
What the law does is describe the behavior of matter, but it would be incorrect to say the law itself was matter.
Using the law of physics again as an example.
The law of physics might describe behavior of matter at zero degrees Kelvin, but it would be incorrect to state that the law itself was cold
Quote:
My thoughts are a product of my brain, which a physical structure.
Are you sure about that?
I think you have it backwards. It is not the firing in your brain that produces your thoughts it is your thoughts that cause your brain to fire.
Everything, the whole of the universe, all of life, everything you can think of is based on information, not on a materialistic or naturalist.
Quote:
Even if the answers were unknown how is that evidence of god? Speaking of consistent laws, you seem to consistently evade this question.
I have never evaded that question Loga I have answered it a few times already.
how is that evidence of god? you ask. it's not and I have not tried to make a case that it was. I have only been saying that a mind/consciousness/ which produces information is behind it all and can be scientifically shown.
How is pointing out your own words a dirty trick? Perhaps you should keep some type of journal in order that you might remember what all you've stated.
Now you are just being stupid. How is :
" I have not lurked as anything. This site is marketed as a relocation assistant. It was never stated that posters were expected to pledge allegiance to anything.
Me pledging to your causes is not applicable to attempting to understand life's meaning/origins or whatever before I die."
My own words? That city -data is initially about city -location is monumentally irrelevant to the fact that you passed yourself off for years as an atheist before being rumbled. Now you come oiling back without the slightest shame and bash atheism as an open god bod, but really rather a poor one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
But what is it you are detecting? is the law made of matter or energy? is it materialistic or naturalistic? or is it immaterial, something that is not seen but has an effect that can be observed?
Lets take the laws of physics as an example.
The laws of physics are not physical. They are not made of matter and they're not made of energy. The laws of physics do not have temperature, density, color, mass, volume, shape, a melting point, hardness, odor, length, etc. They do not possess kinetic, potential, thermal, elastic, chemical, or radiant energy. So then if the law lacks all these things what makes you believe it is materialistic and not immaterial? It seem to me that the law lacks any of the characteristic that would make it a natural or materialistic.
What the law does is describe the behavior of matter, but it would be incorrect to say the law itself was matter.
Using the law of physics again as an example.
The law of physics might describe behavior of matter at zero degrees Kelvin, but it would be incorrect to state that the law itself was cold
Are you sure about that?
I think you have it backwards. It is not the firing in your brain that produces your thoughts it is your thoughts that cause your brain to fire.
Everything, the whole of the universe, all of life, everything you can think of is based on information, not on a materialistic or naturalist.
I have never evaded that question Loga I have answered it a few times already.
how is that evidence of god? you ask. it's not and I have not tried to make a case that it was. I have only been saying that a mind/consciousness/ which produces information is behind it all and can be scientifically shown.
You cannot. You can only pull stunts like trying to pretend abogenesis is impossible (oh yes you did) I/C is science, DNA is a written computer -code and a paper that concealed its' I/D implications managed to get accepted (but was spotted by three scientists and rebutted). None of which would prove a god, let alone a particular religion, even if any of your claims were valid.
And you keep declaring that your arguments are correct when they have been debunked. Even trying to push the broken -spirited 'we can tell a house is designed' argument at one time, despite it being refuted by the 'watch can be distinguished from the grass' rebuttal.
And what is this nonsense about what colour a law is. it is no more that the recognition of reliably repeated behaviour. It is not made of anything other than reliable repetition of a process or effect. you have scraped the barrel down to the last scrap and are scrabbling at the wood.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-25-2020 at 06:07 AM..
" I have not lurked as anything. This site is marketed as a relocation assistant. It was never stated that posters were expected to pledge allegiance to anything.
Me pledging to your causes is not applicable to attempting to understand life's meaning/origins or whatever before I die."
My own words? That city -data is initially about city -location is monumentally irrelevant to the fact that you passed yourself off for years as an atheist before being rumbled. Now you come oiling back without the slightest shame and bash atheism as an open god bod, but really rather a poor one.
I realize I am definitively not one of the brethren but you are going out of your way to otherize and gossip about me to other posters. Do you really need to do that in hopes that there is no God? Am I that big of threat?!
I don't care about your stupid club! I do not qualify and could never qualify as one of your brethren.
I realize I am definitively not one of the brethren but you are going out of your way to otherize and gossip about me to other posters. Do you really need to do that in hopes that there is no God? Am I that big of threat?!
I don't care about your stupid club! I do not qualify and could never qualify as one of your brethren.
You are still sounding stupid. Or dishonest and tricky but very clumsy about it. Unless you are not the Gabfest who spent years on A/A without looking like anything but an atheist, even to me, and I have a well -trained nose for a fraud by now. You just sniped in a puzzling manner at the atheists there and only got rumbled recently. Then you scarpered and have reappeared in full atheist -bashing uniform. Is this you or not? Be honest, if you know that the word means.
I don't mean to sound personal lads, but really these arguments are almost insultingly crude, clumsy and childish.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-25-2020 at 06:09 AM..
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