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Literally stating that one's "trigger" is a person saying "God told us that..." doesn't seem to be any bias?
Really?
No, that's not bias. It was merely an honest admission that some things get under my skin more than others, like pretty much everyone. Here, I'll give you some examples:
*If you told me I was going to "rot in hell" because of what I believe (or don't)... water off a duck's back.
*If you told me "your family's religion is the wrong one, because mine is the right one"... water off a duck's back.
*If you told me "your child can't get into heaven because he wasn't baptised before he died"... water off a duck's back.
*If you told me "the earth is only 6000 years old, and humans were placed here in current form around that same time, because that's how I interpret the Bible"... water off a duck's back.
*If you told me "my church doesn't allow gays or blacks to be members, or women to preach"... water off a duck's back.
Now, I find all of those statements to be highly offensive. And some wouldn't exactly sliiiiide off the duck's back. But I could laugh and/or shake my head at the silliness. That suggests I can handle a fair amount, without letting my "bias against religion" push me over the edge.
However, if you tell me that "the mind of God is unknowable, God works in mysterious ways, no one knows what God has in store for us, etc, etc"... and then turn around and tell me "here's exactly what God says and thinks and wants and expects.... in fact, here's a transcript!"..... I get a little taste of vomit in the back of my throat. What can I say, it's just the way I am?
No, that's not bias. It was merely an honest admission that some things get under my skin more than others, like pretty much everyone. Here, I'll give you some examples:
*If you told me I was going to "rot in hell" because of what I believe (or don't)... water off a duck's back.
*If you told me "your family's religion is the wrong one, because mine is the right one"... water off a duck's back.
*If you told me "your child can't get into heaven because he wasn't baptised before he died"... water off a duck's back.
*If you told me "the earth is only 6000 years old, and humans were placed here in current form around that same time, because that's how I interpret the Bible"... water off a duck's back.
*If you told me "my church doesn't allow gays or blacks to be members, or women to preach"... water off a duck's back.
Now, I find all of those statements to be highly offensive. And some wouldn't exactly sliiiiide off the duck's back. But I could laugh and/or shake my head at the silliness. That suggests I can handle a fair amount, without letting my "bias against religion" push me over the edge.
However, if you tell me that "the mind of God is unknowable, God works in mysterious ways, no one knows what God has in store for us, etc, etc"... and then turn around and tell me "here's exactly what God says and thinks and wants and expects.... in fact, here's a transcript!"..... I get a little taste of vomit in the back of my throat. What can I say, it's just the way I am?
yupperz ... I poodled a little when i read that.
I feel like grabbing them and shouting ... The rock record is the only thing I know where god drew the pictures himself. Pictures to show himself to us.
I feel like grabbing them and shouting ... The rock record is the only thing I know where god drew the pictures himself. Pictures to show himself to us.
But I'm afraid to ask what happens when you "poodle!?"
The fact that the Creator has told us he exists, and what he expects of us is reason enough. But if you want to persist in your denial, there really is nothing I can do to force you to believe.
Other creators have 'told' others that they exist, that is why there are other religions. So maybe what these other creators have said are just man made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
And to that 3 year old, Mom and Dad are quite abusive and tyrannical.
Or last week when I was at Walmart and a 3 year old was just going ballistic about some petty thing. Maybe she didn't get a piece of candy she wanted. I don't know. But to her, Daddy was the most horrible, rottenest, no-good tyrant that ever existed. I really wanted to give Dad an encouraging word and tell him to "hang in there". Every parent has had to deal with that.
As parents, we understand that point of view. But why are you trying to explain your god's point of view as if you know that view? It is as if you are projecting your personality onto the idea of a god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
You're that 3 year old that. From your naive understanding, God is a tyrant. But you don't have a clue what exists outside your little world. So you huff and you puff and you badmouth God all day long on internet forums. Yay for you. Very productive. Way to contribute to society.
You also do not have a clue what exists outside our little world, so should you be lecturing people on what you admit you do not have a clue about? But we do have a clue about what exists in our little world, and compared to that, the god of the Bible is an immoral tyrant.
And when people point this out, you huff and you puff and you defend your immoral god idea all day long on internet forums. Yay for you. Very productive. Way to contribute to society.
No, he is NOT. He is assuming that what DOES exist IS God. That is a difference you refuse to acknowledge with your constant bleating about it.
No, his belief is that his god created what exists. You believe what exists is a god. If yo ucan not understand the difference, should you be lecturing others?
I fully admit both sides have triggers. Both sides have bias.
How do we cancel that out (better stated as lessen as much as possible) so the middle of roader can, just doing the best they can, sort through it?
Scientifically validated evidence and logical reasoning, applied whether we like the results or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
agreed. He saw that when we look at his god traits with emotion, causing needles suffering is wrong, his description begins to fail. It actually failed so quick he had to take another route. He saw that.
now we address it from the "lets assume suffering is not right or wrong.". It ends in the same place.
Its called converging evidence. Two different paths end in the same spot. It just makes the claim more reliable or less reliable when the two different mechanisms do end/don't end in the same predicted outcome.
If we use that hypothesis we end up with a god that didn't know that it wouldn't work and had to 'take another route'.
This is the 'Why didn't God start with Noah' apologetic. It means that IT - god is not the god claimed by Christianity and cannot be.
Atheism cannot be sure there is no god, but we can be sure it isn't That one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
yupperz ... I poodled a little when i read that.
I feel like grabbing them and shouting ... The rock record is the only thing I know where god drew the pictures himself. Pictures to show himself to us.
By 'god' you mean 'nature' I presume. A 'god' has intelligence and will or it's 'natural forces'...until someone demonstrates the will and intelligence.
But again we are drifting of the 'we need religion...true or not' apologetic to the 'gaps for god' apologetic, or fallacy, rather. Let's return to topic.
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But I'm afraid to ask what happens when you "poodle!?" 
