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SO I was once at a Star Trek Convention. The ballroom at the hotel was full of all ages and types of Star Trek Fans. On the stage was actor William Shatner, answering questions and joking with the audience.
As I looked around the room, fascinated (as Spock would say ) with how a TV Show which was cancelled after three seasons had spawned an entire universe of subsequent TV Shows, films, merchandise...and no end is in sight.
Something else I pointed out. Through the entire weekend, I talked to hundreds of fans...ALL loved Science Fiction. NONE believed that the events depicted on the TV series were real. It was fiction, and everyone, I can safely say, in attendance, seemed to know that.
Which is odd, because several Christians, including many I sat with in Sunday School on Sundays in small town Baptist Church. did not like it because, as they said "It is not real" My Grandmother echoed the same sentiment.
Of course it is not real. It is Science Fiction. Anyone would have to be stupid to think that it is real.
Bigger question, you do not like fiction, but you worship the Bible?
As a kid, I always had a fascination with science fiction and horror. I loved stories about the Sasquatch. I do not believe it to be real, but I do understand the place of Monsters in the socio-cultural mythos of a society. Vampires, Horror movies, sci fi flicks, all fascinated me . But I knew that they were just stories, fictional accounts born of the imagination (or substance enhanced) visions of the writer.
This created a conflict with the Philistines who surrounded me growing up.
Frequent comments/questions I got was "There is no such thing" "Well why do you like something if it is not real?" "Well I don't understand why you like that" etc ad nauseum
My oft maligned response was "Well your God, Your Jesus are not real either but you seem to center your life around them"
I guess, in spite of my upbringing, I was an atheist from the get go.
The response would be "Oh yes, Jesus is real Read your Bible" or something along those lines.
SO I did read the Bible. Cover to cover. And became convinced MORE THAN EVER that there is no God, and that the people who gave that response probably had not read it either. At least not in it's entirety.
Was I the only one who noticed all the fictional fables, the flood the arc, the tower of Babel? Was I the only one who noticed that the deity was a superhuman with mental illness and a god sized ego? Was I the only one who noticed that the new testament tales of Jesus were literary allegories recasting Jesus in the roles of Elijah and Moses? Was I the only one who noticed all the inconsistencies, the mis-directions, the gaps in the stories, which could be explained ONLY by symbolism and allegory?
Somewhere, along the way, I encountered way too many Bible Literalists. Most of them, I hate to say. were total D-Bags. They were responsible more than anyone for turning what could have been a decent religion into one so horrible.
But I always asked questions, and they never ever had an answer. Still don't .
What evidence do u have your God exists? What Evidence do you have of Jesus' life? What Evidence do you have of Jesus Resurrection ? What evidence do you have that Jesus "Saved the World"? And on and on.
No solid answers exist.
Like when I asked someone how is it that the USS ENTERPRISE Does not appear to move backwards in time when it breaks warp factor 2 ? According to Einstein and Hawking, an object moving faster than the speed of light would move backwards in time.
According to the "Folding universe" theory, a wormhole would be a better explanation.
BUT in the end, we are discussing a fictional show based on a fictional script.
And that is precisely what we are doing this year at LENT we are discussing a fictional book, a fictional account of a minor , insignificant Jewish teacher who may or may not have existed during the Roman Occupation of Judea, and who may have been killed for inciting rebellion, in some way, although the only accounts of this, written after the fact, are fictional allegorical and fail miserably to hold up to any scholarly sense of reality.
Hence, Fiction.
The 4 Gospels, which are pretty much the accepted canon of Jesus' life and ministry are nothing more than allegorical fables, written in the style and language of Hellenistic Jews, after the fact, by different writers, to appeal to a different audience and are sprinkled with Greco-Hellenistic stories of miracles, resurrections and even a few Parts of the Osiris/Horus myth thrown in. They were influenced loudly by someone who has already been shown and demonstrated to have suffered from mental illness and mind altering hallucinations brought about by a seizure disorder, who had opinions and teachings which were against at times those persons who actually claimed to have known the Jesus character. The 4 gospels are embellished with quotes that do not offer a historic accuracy, but reflect the recasting of Moses and Elijah symbolic with the Jewish Angst felt at the time by the occupied Jewish tribes, who were governed and controlled by the hand of the Roman Empire.
THAT is not evidence. It is story. It is fiction. It is allegory and Myth. It is not history, it is not fact, and it is not even that good as far as philosophy ...(As in there are many better ones out there) SO keep that in mind, if you want to say "Oh I have proof of God " or "I have proof Jesus Resurrected" because as soon as you say "Turn to Mark Chapter 9" I am hanging up. I want real evidence, and I have and am about to show right before Easter, the best evidence that Jesus NEVER resurrected and along the way, evidence (in the next writing" that Jesus was not even an important figure in his time anyway.
SO I was once at a Star Trek Convention. The ballroom at the hotel was full of all ages and types of Star Trek Fans. On the stage was actor William Shatner, answering questions and joking with the audience.
As I looked around the room, fascinated (as Spock would say ) with how a TV Show which was cancelled after three seasons had spawned an entire universe of subsequent TV Shows, films, merchandise...and no end is in sight.
Something else I pointed out. Through the entire weekend, I talked to hundreds of fans...ALL loved Science Fiction. NONE believed that the events depicted on the TV series were real. It was fiction, and everyone, I can safely say, in attendance, seemed to know that.
Which is odd, because several Christians, including many I sat with in Sunday School on Sundays in small town Baptist Church. did not like it because, as they said "It is not real" My Grandmother echoed the same sentiment.
Of course it is not real. It is Science Fiction. Anyone would have to be stupid to think that it is real.
Bigger question, you do not like fiction, but you worship the Bible?
As a kid, I always had a fascination with science fiction and horror. I loved stories about the Sasquatch. I do not believe it to be real, but I do understand the place of Monsters in the socio-cultural mythos of a society. Vampires, Horror movies, sci fi flicks, all fascinated me . But I knew that they were just stories, fictional accounts born of the imagination (or substance enhanced) visions of the writer.
This created a conflict with the Philistines who surrounded me growing up.
Frequent comments/questions I got was "There is no such thing" "Well why do you like something if it is not real?" "Well I don't understand why you like that" etc ad nauseum
My oft maligned response was "Well your God, Your Jesus are not real either but you seem to center your life around them"
I guess, in spite of my upbringing, I was an atheist from the get go.
The response would be "Oh yes, Jesus is real Read your Bible" or something along those lines.
SO I did read the Bible. Cover to cover. And became convinced MORE THAN EVER that there is no God, and that the people who gave that response probably had not read it either. At least not in it's entirety.
Was I the only one who noticed all the fictional fables, the flood the arc, the tower of Babel? Was I the only one who noticed that the deity was a superhuman with mental illness and a god sized ego? Was I the only one who noticed that the new testament tales of Jesus were literary allegories recasting Jesus in the roles of Elijah and Moses? Was I the only one who noticed all the inconsistencies, the mis-directions, the gaps in the stories, which could be explained ONLY by symbolism and allegory?
Somewhere, along the way, I encountered way too many Bible Literalists. Most of them, I hate to say. were total D-Bags. They were responsible more than anyone for turning what could have been a decent religion into one so horrible.
But I always asked questions, and they never ever had an answer. Still don't .
What evidence do u have your God exists? What Evidence do you have of Jesus' life? What Evidence do you have of Jesus Resurrection ? What evidence do you have that Jesus "Saved the World"? And on and on.
No solid answers exist.
Like when I asked someone how is it that the USS ENTERPRISE Does not appear to move backwards in time when it breaks warp factor 2 ? According to Einstein and Hawking, an object moving faster than the speed of light would move backwards in time.
According to the "Folding universe" theory, a wormhole would be a better explanation.
BUT in the end, we are discussing a fictional show based on a fictional script.
And that is precisely what we are doing this year at LENT we are discussing a fictional book, a fictional account of a minor , insignificant Jewish teacher who may or may not have existed during the Roman Occupation of Judea, and who may have been killed for inciting rebellion, in some way, although the only accounts of this, written after the fact, are fictional allegorical and fail miserably to hold up to any scholarly sense of reality.
Hence, Fiction.
The 4 Gospels, which are pretty much the accepted canon of Jesus' life and ministry are nothing more than allegorical fables, written in the style and language of Hellenistic Jews, after the fact, by different writers, to appeal to a different audience and are sprinkled with Greco-Hellenistic stories of miracles, resurrections and even a few Parts of the Osiris/Horus myth thrown in. They were influenced loudly by someone who has already been shown and demonstrated to have suffered from mental illness and mind altering hallucinations brought about by a seizure disorder, who had opinions and teachings which were against at times those persons who actually claimed to have known the Jesus character. The 4 gospels are embellished with quotes that do not offer a historic accuracy, but reflect the recasting of Moses and Elijah symbolic with the Jewish Angst felt at the time by the occupied Jewish tribes, who were governed and controlled by the hand of the Roman Empire.
THAT is not evidence. It is story. It is fiction. It is allegory and Myth. It is not history, it is not fact, and it is not even that good as far as philosophy ...(As in there are many better ones out there) SO keep that in mind, if you want to say "Oh I have proof of God " or "I have proof Jesus Resurrected" because as soon as you say "Turn to Mark Chapter 9" I am hanging up. I want real evidence, and I have and am about to show right before Easter, the best evidence that Jesus NEVER resurrected and along the way, evidence (in the next writing" that Jesus was not even an important figure in his time anyway.
So, KingCat, while we are spending 40 days in the wilderness, tell us how you REALLY feel about this Easter business?
Very good 2nd part , KK. I'll say how I feel about the 'easter' business; it's as much a fairy -tale as the nativities, and made up for the same reason - to fill a gap in the story that Christianity needed filled; Jesus Ought to have been born in Bethlehem, but wasn't, so a story (2 contradictory stories) had to be invented to put the Facts right. Similarly there was no solid body resurrection (Paul's list in the Two Corinthians (1) refers to 'spiritual [imaginary] resurrection) so three contradictory stories had to be invented to put that one right.
on't worry, Mystic Jesus still got executed, so far as the coherence of the story goes, so your Theory that God arranged it all to show what 'Love' looks like, still holds up.
(1) sorry, make that the tale of the Lone Corinthian. 1 Cor.15.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-07-2021 at 03:52 AM..
There are countless churches which are the fallen churches of the world who have people who are agnostics and atheist going there, and Jesus Holy Spirit is restricted in helping these disobedient people who reject the truth and from trying to know Jesus in the ways which Jesus dictates, where these lints paper people will be lost to God because they fail to preach the gospel, and God requires that people have faith and do what God said to even be saved which in turn will save them.......... See these people would need a saint from outside their church to come in and teach them how to find Jesus and pray for them to find the right spirit of Christ ......... Either that or they will be lost to God and have meat during lentil fast and having Easter day eggs and bunny hunts during that day
SO I was once at a Star Trek Convention. The ballroom at the hotel was full of all ages and types of Star Trek Fans. On the stage was actor William Shatner, answering questions and joking with the audience.
As I looked around the room, fascinated (as Spock would say ) with how a TV Show which was cancelled after three seasons had spawned an entire universe of subsequent TV Shows, films, merchandise...and no end is in sight.
Something else I pointed out. Through the entire weekend, I talked to hundreds of fans...ALL loved Science Fiction. NONE believed that the events depicted on the TV series were real. It was fiction, and everyone, I can safely say, in attendance, seemed to know that.
Which is odd, because several Christians, including many I sat with in Sunday School on Sundays in small town Baptist Church. did not like it because, as they said "It is not real" My Grandmother echoed the same sentiment.
Of course it is not real. It is Science Fiction. Anyone would have to be stupid to think that it is real.
Bigger question, you do not like fiction, but you worship the Bible?
As a kid, I always had a fascination with science fiction and horror. I loved stories about the Sasquatch. I do not believe it to be real, but I do understand the place of Monsters in the socio-cultural mythos of a society. Vampires, Horror movies, sci fi flicks, all fascinated me . But I knew that they were just stories, fictional accounts born of the imagination (or substance enhanced) visions of the writer.
This created a conflict with the Philistines who surrounded me growing up.
Frequent comments/questions I got was "There is no such thing" "Well why do you like something if it is not real?" "Well I don't understand why you like that" etc ad nauseum
My oft maligned response was "Well your God, Your Jesus are not real either but you seem to center your life around them"
I guess, in spite of my upbringing, I was an atheist from the get go.
The response would be "Oh yes, Jesus is real Read your Bible" or something along those lines.
SO I did read the Bible. Cover to cover. And became convinced MORE THAN EVER that there is no God, and that the people who gave that response probably had not read it either. At least not in it's entirety.
Was I the only one who noticed all the fictional fables, the flood the arc, the tower of Babel? Was I the only one who noticed that the deity was a superhuman with mental illness and a god sized ego? Was I the only one who noticed that the new testament tales of Jesus were literary allegories recasting Jesus in the roles of Elijah and Moses? Was I the only one who noticed all the inconsistencies, the mis-directions, the gaps in the stories, which could be explained ONLY by symbolism and allegory?
Somewhere, along the way, I encountered way too many Bible Literalists. Most of them, I hate to say. were total D-Bags. They were responsible more than anyone for turning what could have been a decent religion into one so horrible.
But I always asked questions, and they never ever had an answer. Still don't .
What evidence do u have your God exists? What Evidence do you have of Jesus' life? What Evidence do you have of Jesus Resurrection ? What evidence do you have that Jesus "Saved the World"? And on and on.
No solid answers exist.
Like when I asked someone how is it that the USS ENTERPRISE Does not appear to move backwards in time when it breaks warp factor 2 ? According to Einstein and Hawking, an object moving faster than the speed of light would move backwards in time.
According to the "Folding universe" theory, a wormhole would be a better explanation.
BUT in the end, we are discussing a fictional show based on a fictional script.
And that is precisely what we are doing this year at LENT we are discussing a fictional book, a fictional account of a minor , insignificant Jewish teacher who may or may not have existed during the Roman Occupation of Judea, and who may have been killed for inciting rebellion, in some way, although the only accounts of this, written after the fact, are fictional allegorical and fail miserably to hold up to any scholarly sense of reality.
Hence, Fiction.
The 4 Gospels, which are pretty much the accepted canon of Jesus' life and ministry are nothing more than allegorical fables, written in the style and language of Hellenistic Jews, after the fact, by different writers, to appeal to a different audience and are sprinkled with Greco-Hellenistic stories of miracles, resurrections and even a few Parts of the Osiris/Horus myth thrown in. They were influenced loudly by someone who has already been shown and demonstrated to have suffered from mental illness and mind altering hallucinations brought about by a seizure disorder, who had opinions and teachings which were against at times those persons who actually claimed to have known the Jesus character. The 4 gospels are embellished with quotes that do not offer a historic accuracy, but reflect the recasting of Moses and Elijah symbolic with the Jewish Angst felt at the time by the occupied Jewish tribes, who were governed and controlled by the hand of the Roman Empire.
THAT is not evidence. It is story. It is fiction. It is allegory and Myth. It is not history, it is not fact, and it is not even that good as far as philosophy ...(As in there are many better ones out there) SO keep that in mind, if you want to say "Oh I have proof of God " or "I have proof Jesus Resurrected" because as soon as you say "Turn to Mark Chapter 9" I am hanging up. I want real evidence, and I have and am about to show right before Easter, the best evidence that Jesus NEVER resurrected and along the way, evidence (in the next writing" that Jesus was not even an important figure in his time anyway.
Its almost like "Duh ...yeah.".
And, the other thing, for me, is that star treck had some plausible things in it. Some, much less plausible than others. It also had some lessons it.
Another thing that freaks me out is how they revere the actors ... sound familiar there too? I would like to talk to the writers, not the actors.
They can have your bible conventions and even all dress up. Stay out of law making and how the universe works.
So, KingCat, while we are spending 40 days in the wilderness, tell us how you REALLY feel about this Easter business?
While you are casting yourself in the role of Moses, remember that the story of Jesus spending 40 days in the desert is only a literary technique to recast Jesus as Moses, allegorically of course
Oh And please, DO NOT TRY TO GO 40 DAYS WITHOUT FOOD. You will not survive, as the body cannot go that long without nutrition
While you are casting yourself in the role of Moses, remember that the story of Jesus spending 40 days in the desert is only a literary technique to recast Jesus as Moses, allegorically of course
Oh And please, DO NOT TRY TO GO 40 DAYS WITHOUT FOOD. You will not survive, as the body cannot go that long without nutrition
I will obey your caution, KingCat. Love your picture as Santa. You definitely look genuinely like Santa. Why do you look familiar to me? I get it, you ARE Santa.
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