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You didn't ask me, either, but "no purpose" to life is irrational, but not as irrational as "to serve god" to me.
This simple post is excellent.
In my view, there is no purpose to life placed upon people by some imaginary being.
But each person may very well have a purpose to life, placed on them by themselves. You don't have to be a religionist to be a doctor dedicated to promoting health and saving lives. You don't have to be a religionist to be an educator dedicated to working for the benefit of children and students. You don't have to be a religionist to fighting for justice by being a lawyer. And so on.
That's not to say that every doctor, or every educator, or every lawyer is dedicated to a purpose in life. For many it is just a job.
I think many religionists are actually rather selfish because their ultimate goal wrapped around their purpose in life is how to I get to heaven or nibanna, etc.
I think many religionists are actually rather selfish because their ultimate goal wrapped around their purpose in life is how to I get to heaven or nibanna, etc.
That's exactly the crucial point. But most of them aren't even aware of it.
Years ago in a forum of western hindus I was banned after three posts because of the following "mistake": They described to meditate about the "I am", in the background the believe to be a carnation of OneGod. I dared to ask, how they act to other carnations of God, because a "We" would eventually be better than an "I". And we would and should have a responsiblity for our common "body" too. The admin became extremely angry...telling me to be a troll and to forget the christian nonsense.
But you are right to say "many religionists". I know many christians who aren't self-centered. But there is a well-known faction, their first and most important sentence on mission is, that you should believe that Christ died for your sins and than your sins are forgiven. To me (and I am a theist, but not much in organized religion) this is obviously egoistic. Someone should pray, don't let other ones be punished for my wrong doings! I will take the responsibilty. And they prefer forgiven sins not the alteration of the self to have a more passionate personality to other people. So that is self-centered too. An unconscious trap.
But it is possible to find "high developed ideals" and "deep thinking" behind organized religions (and they are sometimes real "ego-groups" in worst case). Especially if you look to the beginnings and the first motivations.
Can't agree more. - No, it is not negative to enjoy helping others (it has to be this way). Yes, and I think too we all have a common source.
Sceptical I am at an other turn of thoughts. Some people are claiming you should believe in Jesus so that you get eternal live in heaven and you won't be punished. THAT motivation is not right in my eyes, it just an other way to think egoistically.
If you cannot enjoy to care for others and love them: heaven would be the punishment. What region would be suitable for someone who has to be forced by threads and great rewards?
It's my opinion that the definition of a Christian means following Christ
The underlying motivation in following Christ is love
The reason why we love is coming to know God and Christ and choosing to reciprocate the love that is shown us.
In fact, developing that love is so important that Jesus said it's intertwined with the first and second commandments: Love of God and love of neighbor.
The majority view that the Bible teaches heaven and "the punishment" (hell) isn't in line with what Jesus, the apostles and the early Christians actually believed. Eternal punishment is a pagan teaching that made its way into Christianity propelled during the dark ages. Many Christians are already aware of this.
What the Bible teaches is some go to heaven while most are resurrected to a transformed earth.
This viewpoint is what Bible scholars from different sectors of Christianity are in agreement with. Sadly, many aren't aware or aren't open to this view.
You didn't ask me, either, but "no purpose" to life is irrational, but not as irrational as "to serve god" to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
This simple post is excellent.
In my view, there is no purpose to life placed upon people by some imaginary being.
But each person may very well have a purpose to life, placed on them by themselves. You don't have to be a religionist to be a doctor dedicated to promoting health and saving lives. You don't have to be a religionist to be an educator dedicated to working for the benefit of children and students. You don't have to be a religionist to fighting for justice by being a lawyer. And so on.
That's not to say that every doctor, or every educator, or every lawyer is dedicated to a purpose in life. For many it is just a job.
I think many religionists are actually rather selfish because their ultimate goal wrapped around their purpose in life is how to I get to heaven or nibanna, etc.
Indeed! Your post is excellent too (although not as simple ). But very true.
The statement "But each person may very well have a purpose to life, placed on them by themselves" is in my opinion, profound.
......................That's not to say that every doctor, or every educator, or every lawyer is dedicated to a purpose in life. For many it is just a job..................
To me the main point is Not necessarily about 'purpose' or even finding 'meaning' in life but hope.
What hope does a doctor, educator, lawyer, etc. have_________
Perhaps they don't want any hope, but if they do in my view only the Bible gives real future hope.
Resurrection hope for the dead, and for the living to be saved alive through the coming great tribulation.
There is a saying, God looks into the hearts. So let’s try just that.
Imagine a rower in a roman slave galley. He believes, that as long as he is rowing there will be no punishment (and likely is very right). He believes also that for rowing well he will be awarded with better meals and the probabity to survive a battle on sea is higher too.What do think, does he has a good heart? Of course, we don’t know at all. At least he isn’t a good guy because he is a phantastic rower. Or because he believes in the captain .But what we know is: he is doing it for himself. No offense for that. Everybody would do it, a holy man like a mafioso.
And now think of some Christians who speak about you shall believe in Jesus, because you won’t be punished and would be rewarded greatly. If you believe that – in a way – your are in the same position as the poor rower. You are doing it for yourself.
To put it provocatively: An atheist is helping me. That’s good. Because he likes me or he likes to help. Both ways a good thing. If a Christian does the same… may be it is pure egoism?
It is like an unvisible trap. What counts is the right motivation. At least if someone states a higher purpose.
You can never know for sure whether someone offering help is truly selfless or instead believes he/she is acting in a form of enlightened self-interest.
..............The statement "But each person may very well have a purpose to life, placed on them by themselves" is in my opinion, profound.
Yes, I can agree that a person may very well place a purpose on themselves, even place a meaning to life by themselves.
But, I find only the Bible gives them a real future hope. The hope of living again, or living though the coming great tribulation.
To me the main point is Not necessarily about 'purpose' or even finding 'meaning' in life but hope.
What hope does a doctor, educator, lawyer, etc. have_________
Perhaps they don't want any hope, but if they do in my view only the Bible gives real future hope.
Resurrection hope for the dead, and for the living to be saved alive through the coming great tribulation.
Gee, I guess every doctor world has no purpose in their life if they don't follow the bible.
Imagine a rower in a roman slave galley. He believes, that as long as he is rowing there will be no punishment (and likely is very right). He believes also that for rowing well he will be awarded with better meals and the probabity to survive a battle on sea is higher too.What do think, does he has a good heart? Of course, we don’t know at all. At least he isn’t a good guy because he is a phantastic rower. Or because he believes in the captain .But what we know is: he is doing it for himself. No offense for that. Everybody would do it, a holy man like a mafioso.
And now think of some Christians who speak about you shall believe in Jesus, because you won’t be punished and would be rewarded greatly. If you believe that – in a way – your are in the same position as the poor rower. You are doing it for yourself.
To put it provocatively: An atheist is helping me. That’s good. Because he likes me or he likes to help. Both ways a good thing. If a Christian does the same… may be it is pure egoism?
It is like an unvisible trap. What counts is the right motivation. At least if someone states a higher purpose.
Interesting about the Roman slave galley rower.
Seems to me that slave had No say in the matter as to whether he is a slave or not.
We don't think of a follower of Jesus as being a captive slave, but a follower because of one's free-will choice.
We are already 'punished', so to speak, because we 'die'. Death is the 'punishment' or sentence for sinning.
Death, Not any post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for death in the Bible.
'After death punishment' is taught by false clergy using scare tactics and is Not Scriptural.
'Sleep' in death is what Jesus and the OT taught.
( taught as found at John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
Yes, the reward is future resurrection back to live life again.
Only the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' (extinct forever) for that is what the Bible really teaches - Psalms 92:7; 104:35
We are created to want to live forever, so that is Not selfish.
For each day that we can think of we can think of and look forward (if Not sick) to the next day.
As far as motives, we find both good and bad everywhere. The apostle Paul besides Jesus dealt with bad-motive people.
Bad-motivated people do Not make the Bible as wrong, it just makes them wrong.
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). But very true.
