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In Matthew chapter 10, Jesus commissions his Disciples (not future generations) to go out and preach around Israel. He tells them that their message should be one of URGENCY - "The kingdom of heaven is at hand!" He continues to tell them that their mission will be treacherous and that they would be hated because of him, but if they endure to the end, they would be saved. He also told them they would be persecuted and when they are they should flee from city to city. He then tops it off by telling them that despite ALL of this, they will not complete their circuit through Israel because he will come back before they can. Those Disciples are long gone and Jesus has yet to return.
The incentive here for them was that despite the dangers they would face, Jesus would return to rescue them from whatever they would go through, without which, they may have never moved an inch.
Over in Matthew 24 (used to be my favorite biblical chapter), Jesus gives a chapters worth of predictions in response to his Disciples' questions about the end times. What a lot of Christians fail to see or refuse to see is that the New Testament Jews felt thy were living in the last days. In fact, this was an ongoing sentiment from way back in the days of the Greek occupation, but their apocalyptic views actually going back as far as their time under Persian rule 600 years before the time of Jesus.
Jewish rabbis were teaching that the earth had gone past 6,000 years old and 7,000 years would usher in perfection (7 representing perfection), an age of peace which would see the restoration of Israel to her former glory, all of her enemies vanquished, in this case Rome, the great evil empire. Fanatics (known as Sicarris or men of the dagger), convinced they were at the end of time, roamed the Judean countrysides assassinating Roman and Herodian sympathizers and trying to stir up trouble with Rome with the idea that war with Rome would be the catalyst to bring the anticipated messiah. Others like the Essenes, convinced their Jewish brethren were not living up to standards and also believing the world was soon to end, abandoned life in the city and moved to desert to start a commune of a strict life of purity. They too anticipated some deliverer.
It was against this backdrop the New Testament apocalyptic literature we read was written and without taking this into consideration, I personally believe the reader is bound to draw a very faulty conclusions in regards to Jesus' supposed rapturing of the saints/second coming.
More later on Matthew 24.
What I see is your interpretation of Bible stories. The assignment was to quote scriptures proving there is or was a timeframe and I don't see any scriptures. I'm sorry, I have no choice but to fail you.
With the context now in mind, what we have here is a Jewish world of that time embroiled in growing tensions with Rome. Rome was a modern day version of the hated Babylonian Empire of yesteryear. In fact, as we can tell from the Book of Revelation, Babylon was code word for Rome. Jesus was clearly aware of this when the Disciples asked him what would the signs of the end be as well as his [second] coming. He tells them that the temple would be destroyed on the heels of rumors of impending war [with Rome], accompanied by natural disasters and the consequences of war.
This was also a time of many self-appointed messiahs claiming to be the expected deliverer of the Jews and I am sure this was not lost on him either so he warns them of pretenders. He reiterates the warning of betrayal (a common act during war) and that those who remain to the end will be saved.
What we find throughout this whole chapter is that Jesus continuously refers to his Disciples before him. He consistently uses the word "you" in reference to them. At no point are we led to believe (unless we want to be dishonest) he has any distant future generations in mind. In fact any such notion is shattered when he tells them that THEIR ("this") generation would not pass until all the things he tells them leading up to his [second] coming comes to pass. To even highlight the point even more, he tells THEM that when they see these things, they are to be aware that the end is near "even at YOUR very doors."
Beyond Matthew 24 (and the parallel passages in Mark and Luke), we find another interesting passage in Mark 14. When Jesus is brought before the High Priest he is questioned as to whether or not h is the chosen Christ. He simply tells the priest and those present that he is and that HE (the high priest) would see him (the son of man) coming back in power and might. The High Priest has been dead for about 2,000 years now and still no sight of Jesus.
It is clear from other New Testament books, this was the understanding the early Christians had. No one knew the day nor hour of Jesus' return, but as per his own admission, Jesus [allegedly] gave outright evidence it was to be in THEIR lifetimes. Like many modern day cults, no wonder they were able to sell their belongings and share their common wealth nor to take any thought of tomorrow. As far as they were concerned, Jesus was soon to return and could we fault them?
What I see is your interpretation of Bible stories. The assignment was to quote scriptures proving there is or was a timeframe and I don't see any scriptures. I'm sorry, I have no choice but to fail you.
Read Matthew 24 properly and within the proper context and you will see all the scripture proof you need.
Read Matthew 24 properly and within the proper context and you will see all the scripture proof you need.
I have read matthew 24, also know as the Olivet discourse, many many many times, and what I find is Jesus talking to his disciples AND being able to see into the future as well to end-time events, if one beleives like I do, one would have to take into consideration that Jesus is God....also this has been discussed before here on City-data //www.city-data.com/forum/relig...end-age-2.html
Just stepped in for a minute to step back out but just wanted to say, I AM NOT BLAMING GOD FOR ANYTHING. I don't even believe the god of the bible existed other than in the minds or mortal men so why blame the non existent. My point was to show how said mortal men can use a contrived deity to come up with all kinds of mumbo jumbo to fleece the gullible.
So why are you even talking about this?
Last edited by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA; 05-16-2008 at 09:23 PM..
Reason: left out word
With the context now in mind, what we have here is a Jewish world of that time embroiled in growing tensions with Rome. Rome was a modern day version of the hated Babylonian Empire of yesteryear. In fact, as we can tell from the Book of Revelation, Babylon was code word for Rome. Jesus was clearly aware of this when the Disciples asked him what would the signs of the end be as well as his [second] coming. He tells them that the temple would be destroyed on the heels of rumors of impending war [with Rome], accompanied by natural disasters and the consequences of war.
This was also a time of many self-appointed messiahs claiming to be the expected deliverer of the Jews and I am sure this was not lost on him either so he warns them of pretenders. He reiterates the warning of betrayal (a common act during war) and that those who remain to the end will be saved.
What we find throughout this whole chapter is that Jesus continuously refers to his Disciples before him. He consistently uses the word "you" in reference to them. At no point are we led to believe (unless we want to be dishonest) he has any distant future generations in mind. In fact any such notion is shattered when he tells them that THEIR ("this") generation would not pass until all the things he tells them leading up to his [second] coming comes to pass. To even highlight the point even more, he tells THEM that when they see these things, they are to be aware that the end is near "even at YOUR very doors."
Beyond Matthew 24 (and the parallel passages in Mark and Luke), we find another interesting passage in Mark 14. When Jesus is brought before the High Priest he is questioned as to whether or not h is the chosen Christ. He simply tells the priest and those present that he is and that HE (the high priest) would see him (the son of man) coming back in power and might. The High Priest has been dead for about 2,000 years now and still no sight of Jesus.
It is clear from other New Testament books, this was the understanding the early Christians had. No one knew the day nor hour of Jesus' return, but as per his own admission, Jesus [allegedly] gave outright evidence it was to be in THEIR lifetimes. Like many modern day cults, no wonder they were able to sell their belongings and share their common wealth nor to take any thought of tomorrow. As far as they were concerned, Jesus was soon to return and could we fault them?
Same thing...your interpretations and no scriptures quoted. You cannot and never will be able to understand scriptures and Bible prophecy without Christ and the Holy Spirit. Can't be done. I'm glad that you have taken the time to research this, but you have proved nothing.
This is exactly what I was talking about in my post saying that people will suffer the wrath of God who intentionally bulk up on the Bible to use it for evil. That's exactly what you are doing. Using the Bible to disprove it. Seems easier to me to just ask Jesus to be your Savior and let the Holy Spirit guide you through understanding the Bible. It's a whole lot less work.
Do you know why Christians in EVERY age since the time of Jesus always feel THEIR generation o one just ahead of them is the final generation? It is because Jesus has clearly not returned. As a result, there is constant reinterpretation of the signs.
Just imagine. Look at Matthew 24:2. There are some Christians who will tell you that the fig tree represents Israel and the blooming of new leaves was a symbolic prediction of the modern day establishment that state. So what was the interpretation of that passage 1,400 years ago?
Same thing...your interpretations and no scriptures quoted. You cannot and never will be able to understand scriptures and Bible prophecy without Christ and the Holy Spirit. Can't be done. I'm glad that you have taken the time to research this, but you have proved nothing.
This is exactly what I was talking about in my post saying that people will suffer the wrath of God who intentionally bulk up on the Bible to use it for evil. That's exactly what you are doing. Using the Bible to disprove it. Seems easier to me to just ask Jesus to be your Savior and let the Holy Spirit guide you through understanding the Bible. It's a whole lot less work.
Do you know why Christians in EVERY age since the time of Jesus always feel THEIR generation o one just ahead of them is the final generation? It is because Jesus has clearly not returned. As a result, there is constant reinterpretation of the signs.
Just imagine. Look at Matthew 24:2. There are some Christians who will tell you that the fig tree represents Israel and the blooming of new leaves was a symbolic prediction of the modern day establishment that state. So what was the interpretation of that passage 1,400 years ago?
I cant know what Christians thought 1400 years ago..but I can tell you this..Israel just "recently" became an established state in 1948 and then following the 6 day warin 1967, the Jewish people were again in control of Jeruseluem. something that did not happen 1400 years ago. Actually from 70AD until 1967 it would have been hard to interpret many Bible prophecys aboout Israel because they had not came to pass yet.....until now
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