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Sometimes I wonder if those other gospels are really that crazy or if we are just accustomed to the crazy we ended up with, lol.
They're really that crazy. From Gospel of Peter:
[39] And while they were relating what they had seen, again they see three males who have come out from they sepulcher, with the two supporting the other one, and a cross following them,
[40] and the head of the two reaching unto heaven, but that of the one being led out by a hand by them going beyond the heavens.
[41] And they were hearing a voice from the heavens saying, 'Have you made proclamation to the fallen-asleep?'
[42] And an obeisance was heard from the cross, 'Yes.'
[39] And while they were relating what they had seen, again they see three males who have come out from they sepulcher, with the two supporting the other one, and a cross following them,
[40] and the head of the two reaching unto heaven, but that of the one being led out by a hand by them going beyond the heavens.
[41] And they were hearing a voice from the heavens saying, 'Have you made proclamation to the fallen-asleep?'
[42] And an obeisance was heard from the cross, 'Yes.'
Sure, it's nuts, but is a walking, talking cross really any nuttier than the Book of Revelation? Any more fantastical than zombies in the streets of Jerusalem? It seems crazier, I think, because it's crazy we just aren't acclimated to.
I think the main problem of some of these non-canonical writings is less that they are crazy -- which is never a problem for religionists -- than that they are often poorly written.
Also some of them push dogma that just wouldn't have had any staying power. For example there were Christian sects that promoted the keeping of Jewish law (there's a reason modern Jews are 0.2% of the world population); there were sects that pushed celibacy even between married couples, etc. Each of these groups had their own "scriptures", most of them lost since the victors get to pick what books to burn.
Sometimes I wonder if those other gospels are really that crazy or if we are just accustomed to the crazy we ended up with, lol.
That is why I use the gospel of Peter, because the story of Jesus walking on water is normal for us, but Peter resurrecting a cooked fish is an extraordinary claim.
Sure, it's nuts, but is a walking, talking cross really any nuttier than the Book of Revelation? Any more fantastical than zombies in the streets of Jerusalem? It seems crazier, I think, because it's crazy we just aren't acclimated to.
I think the main problem of some of these non-canonical writings is less that they are crazy -- which is never a problem for religionists -- than that they are often poorly written.
Also some of them push dogma that just wouldn't have had any staying power. For example there were Christian sects that promoted the keeping of Jewish law (there's a reason modern Jews are 0.2% of the world population); there were sects that pushed celibacy even between married couples, etc. Each of these groups had their own "scriptures", most of them lost since the victors get to pick what books to burn.
Yes, Revelation is nuttier than a fruitcake--a product of some powerful hallucinogenic locoweed found on the island of Patmos:
"Uncovering the use of entheogens in Early Christianity....an entire portion of Early Christianity has been systematically deleted, especially when it comes to the use of psychoactive substances.....the spirituality that eventually became Christianity likely arose from the psychedelic experience, deeply rooted in astrology and mysticism."
Sure, it's nuts, but is a walking, talking cross really any nuttier than the Book of Revelation? Any more fantastical than zombies in the streets of Jerusalem? It seems crazier, I think, because it's crazy we just aren't acclimated to.
I think the main problem of some of these non-canonical writings is less that they are crazy -- which is never a problem for religionists -- than that they are often poorly written.
Also some of them push dogma that just wouldn't have had any staying power. For example there were Christian sects that promoted the keeping of Jewish law (there's a reason modern Jews are 0.2% of the world population); there were sects that pushed celibacy even between married couples, etc. Each of these groups had their own "scriptures", most of them lost since the victors get to pick what books to burn.
Yes, Revelation is nuttier than a fruitcake--a product of some powerful hallucinogenic locoweed found on the island of Patmos:
"Uncovering the use of entheogens in Early Christianity....an entire portion of Early Christianity has been systematically deleted, especially when it comes to the use of psychoactive substances.....the spirituality that eventually became Christianity likely arose from the psychedelic experience, deeply rooted in astrology and mysticism."
Yes! Thanks for the link and the post. I've been saying forever that Revelation was written by a madman about his hallucinations "visions' and dreams because that's all he had, there was no divine "revelation', just hallucinations.
A lot of people put a lot of stock into their dreams and they are just jumbled up crazy things that the mind produces while sleeping. Why would anyone take Revelation literally? How is that even possible? It's completely incoherent. If there is any truth to John being a real person, then I think Patmos must have been covered with psychedelic mushrooms or it could be some very potent locoweed like you said.
But by golly, you'd better believe those screwy interpretations because your fellow fundamentalist Christians are going to condemn you to hell if you don't. Every time I talk about fundamentalism I breathe a sigh of relief because I am sooooo happy to be free from that. I know you are too, Thrill, and it shows. I'd love to participate in this thread but you're already saying the things that I would say.
Since I believe that Jesus (NOT the Bible) accurately represents the "mind of God," Yes. I would prefer they adopt Christianity and follow Jesus's instructions to love God and each other every day and repent when they fail. The religious dogma is NOT accurate but the fact that Jesus (as God) loves us IS!! The primitive and barbaric dogma can be overcome without throwing Jesus out with the dirty bath water!!
But you didn't address the main part of my question:
Would you prefer they adopt Christianity WITHOUT KNOWING ALL THE DECEPTIONS CHRISTIANITY EMPLOYED TO BOOST ITS RELIGION?
If prospective converters to Christianity know the complete story of Jesus--that there evidence to suggest he was an invention of the Church--then these converters could make an informed decision rather than making one without knowing all the facts.
But you didn't address the main part of my question:
Would you prefer they adopt Christianity WITHOUT KNOWING ALL THE DECEPTIONS CHRISTIANITY EMPLOYED TO BOOST ITS RELIGION?
If prospective converters to Christianity know the complete story of Jesus--that there evidence to suggest he was an invention of the Church--then these converters could make an informed decision rather than making one without knowing all the facts.
Do you agree?
No. You ASSUME Jesus is an invention. Since the God I encountered had a consciousness exactly like His, I disagree.
But you agree that in the first three centuries the churchmen were making certain statements about Christianity that were not true, right?
They were NOT ACCURATE but it was what they actually believed at the time, IMO. The widespread nature and evolution of the shyster and con man is a more recent adaptation to the ease with which religious belief could be manipulated. There have always been self-seeking Machiavellian opportunits who take advantage of such malleable targets.
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