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idk --- the first time it happened I was in the hospital and I thought it was my guilty conscience talking to me --- told me "I had something to say I was sorry for", repeatedly and I didn't listen to it. In fact my defiant 20 year old self told it that, I had done nothing any worse than anyone else in this world had done and I didn't need to ask forgiveness for anything. 5 years later, not even thinking of what happened 5 year back and after being told 'trust me' lets just say I was shown the error of my ways ... 10 months later. (after all the events, then I remembered the letter I had wrote when I was about 12 years old)
idk what to tell you. For be it for me to tell you how to figure it out.
What this tells me is that God cares a LOT for you but he couldn't care less about me. This also tells me that the Calvinists are right: from time immemorial God chose a select few (like you) to save and the rest--me, mordant, Harry et al--the vast majority of mankind he predestined for eternal punishment in hell.
idk --- the first time it happened I was in the hospital and I thought it was my guilty conscience talking to me --- told me "I had something to say I was sorry for", repeatedly and I didn't listen to it. In fact my defiant 20 year old self told it that, I had done nothing any worse than anyone else in this world had done and I didn't need to ask forgiveness for anything. 5 years later, not even thinking of what happened 5 year back and after being told 'trust me' lets just say I was shown the error of my ways ... 10 months later. (after all the events, then I remembered the letter I had wrote when I was about 12 years old)
idk what to tell you. For be it for me to tell you how to figure it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
What this tells me is that God cares a LOT for you but he couldn't care less about me. This also tells me that the Calvinists are right: from time immemorial God chose a select few (like you) to save and the rest--me, mordant, Harry et al--the vast majority of mankind he predestined for eternal punishment in hell.
If I told you the whole story as it happened, rather than the pieces I've done for privacy sake, I would expect an atheist comeback to be --- that I'm relying on my conscience and coincidence to substantiate a belief in God. And that atheist would be right.
So no I'm not here to save you, (that power is within you) because I can't. All I can do is tell you about an experience I had once. That's it.
btw: I'll turn 62 soon and I'm still defiant. God has asked me (age 16) to write for Him. And I've told Him, Lord, people have written a great big book, I'm sure there is nothing that I could write that would make a difference, that that big book hasn't already.
So when you speak of punishment, I've got mine coming, soon. The vast majority of mankind has proven to me, there is no point to that task.
What this tells me is that God cares a LOT for you but he couldn't care less about me. This also tells me that the Calvinists are right: from time immemorial God chose a select few (like you) to save and the rest--me, mordant, Harry et al--the vast majority of mankind he predestined for eternal punishment in hell.
Calvin was worse than misguided. His doctrine is evil. There is no Hell of the kind envisioned by the dogma. There is only spiritual correction and refinement - a very different outcome. God is not a respecter of persons. That means He does NOT see us as individuals. IMO, you and the others have achieved the kind of self-reliance that God wants from us individually. You actually already seem to care and concern yourself with the errors of humankind unlike me when I was an atheist.
I do not know about Ellis, but when I was an atheist, I didn't give the proverbial <<bleep>> about God or anyone but ME. I was bullied and ridiculed in my earliest years for my intellect, timidity, and shyness. I sought martial arts training and weight-lifting (you know the Charles Atlas motivation). I was very successful and quite the rebel without a cause - black leather jacket with a phosphorescent Eagle on the back, the whole nine yards!
I assure you I was no seeker of God, believe me! I really needed that cognitive kick-in-the-butt that I received and I am immensely grateful for it! It would seem that what I chose to focus my discipline and adolescent zealousness on (meditation) was the very practice that would prove most fruitful. I am convinced that diligent self-discipline is an essential element of our spiritual development and maturity (emphasis on SELF-discipline). Fear of God or Hell is counterproductive and useless.
Last edited by mensaguy; 09-23-2022 at 09:50 AM..
Reason: Unacceptable language.
"The literary evidence to the text of the New Testament is vastly more abundant than that to any other series of writings of like compass in the entire range of ancient letters. Of the sacred books of the Hebrew Bible there is no known copy antedating the 10th century AD. Of Homer there is no complete copy earlier than the 13th century. Of Herodotus there is no manuscript earlier than the 10th century. Of Vergil but one copy is earlier than the fourth century, and but a fragment of all Cicero's writings is even as old as this. Of the New Testament, however, we have two splendid manuscripts of the fourth century, at least ten of the fifth, twenty-five of the sixth and in all a total of more than four thousand copies in whole or in part of the Greek New Testament."
I read that and I remembered your comment.
Thank you, I will try and find time to read your link, but the tax man wants some money, so I am a little busy at this time.
Just one comment, these 'four thousand copies' will be descendants of the second canon collected around 150 - 170 AD, so we can not know about any variants in the NT scripture before that time. But for me, it is an interesting study.
Harry's reference to, Mark may have relied on Homer, and as we can see, that's not possible.
That does not follow, the Greeks and Romans of that time definitely had access to texts that no longer exist today, and they certainly used Homer, it was one of their main educational texts.
For those who would live their lives "indoors" with the blinds figuratively drawn, even trees and rain could be considered myth. Nothing can be seen, experienced, and understood when the person takes no valid action or effort.
Continue on willfully "indoors", blind, and shut out. The responsibility of change is on you, not others. Only you can choose to go "outside" and learn, but your pride will keep you locked up and blinded. Have fun.
Taunts and insults will nor convince others that you are correct.
The one with pride is the one demeaning others for not having a similiar belief.
As a photographer and an Earth Scientist I am well aware that two people can go any place and see that place entirely differently. Does not make the one stupid, ignorant or blind? No. Perhaps your faith has made you blind to that fact. Maybe open your own mind, disgard the pride and understand why there are many different and sometimes opposing faiths as well as no faith in the Real World.
Harry's reference to, Mark may have relied on Homer, and as we can see, that's not possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
That does not follow, the Greeks and Romans of that time definitely had access to texts that no longer exist today, and they certainly used Homer, it was one of their main educational texts.
Same argument that I have concerning the Biblical text, imo, the text were destroyed; rendering us with an incomplete history, but on purpose.
From the link: "Of Homer there is no complete copy earlier than the 13th century."
"The Iliad and Odyssey are conventionally dated to the late 8th or early 7th century BC. By this time the use of writing was becoming more widespread in Greece and it seems that the poems were also set down for the first time. But it's clear that the poems contain features preserved from the pre-writing age."
"The most important repository of Homeric texts in the Hellenistic world was at the library of Alexandria, Egypt, the first comprehensive public library ever built, which was founded by the Ptolemaic kings in the early third century B.C. As Homer was the poet par excellence, his work was central to the library's collections, which contained copies of the Homeric poems from many different city-states, including Chios, Argos, and Sinope."
You could be right Harry, that the Greeks and Romans of that time had access to texts that no longer exist today. Who could prove you wrong ... But I did learn something factual that I didn't know before. At one time Ancient Rome ruled over Ancient Egypt. In the grand scheme of things in the Who is Who and Where, that is a good piece of information to know concerning dates of things and events.
Calvin was worse than misguided. His doctrine is evil. There is no Hell of the kind envisioned by the dogma. There is only spiritual correction and refinement - a very different outcome. God is not a respecter of persons. That means He does NOT see us as individuals. IMO, you and the others have achieved the kind of self-reliance that God wants from us individually. You actually already seem to care and concern yourself with the errors of humankind unlike me when I was an atheist.
I do not know about Ellis, but when I was an atheist, I didn't give the proverbial <<bleep>> about God or anyone but ME. I was bullied and ridiculed in my earliest years for my intellect, timidity, and shyness. I sought martial arts training and weight-lifting (you know the Charles Atlas motivation). I was very successful and quite the rebel without a cause - black leather jacket with a phosphorescent Eagle on the back, the whole nine yards!
I assure you I was no seeker of God, believe me! I really needed that cognitive kick-in-the-butt that I received and I am immensely grateful for it! It would seem that what I chose to focus my discipline and adolescent zealousness on (meditation) was the very practice that would prove most fruitful. I am convinced that diligent self-discipline is an essential element of our spiritual development and maturity (emphasis on SELF-discipline). Fear of God or Hell is counterproductive and useless.
Well, I think I've mentioned here several times that I fervently believed in Jesus for 60 years and I'm 71 now so it was in here that I deconverted. Anyone who checks my threads history (and I have a history of 990 threads on CD, mostly on the Religion forums) can see my gradual progression from eternal torment believer to universalism to preterist to agnostic to atheist over the last 14 years (joined in 2008). It was about 2012 or so that I did a thorough investigation of Jesus' historicity and found what millions are finding--that the Jesus of the Bible never lived, he's just a myth. I acknowledge that someone upon which the Jesus myth was built may have lived but we know nothing of this person(s).
As such I pity Christians who put their full faith in a person for which we haven't the slightest bit of evidence existed other than a lot of traditions and stories that were passed around for hundreds of years. As you alluded, we only get one life in this screwed-up universe and once that is gone it's lights out for trillions upon unknown trillions of years until this present universe disintegrates. My sincere advice: live life to its fullest and don't let a screwed-up belief system deter you from that goal.
With regard to Calvin, Christians will fall into one of four or five camps: eternal torment, universalism, annihilalism, preterism, predestinationism, arminianism, and probably there are more out there. This alone should tip people off that there's something seriously wrong with Christianity that so many belief systems should be found within one religion. I mean did Jesus establish one religion or did he establish thousands of them?
But the truth is your average Christian doesn't know a Calvinist from a cowboy. They couldn't recite John 3:16 if you offered them a million dollars. In other words they know absolutely nothing about a religion they profess to belong to. And a good thing too that for probably 95% of professed adherents Christianity is just a title to hang their hat on when someone asks them what religion they're a member of.
So to say Calvinism is evil is to suggest that other aspects of Christianity is not. For me it's all evil if it orders people to live their lives by tenants supposedly laid down by someone for which we haven't the slightest bit of evidence ever existed or actually said these things.
You could be right Harry, that the Greeks and Romans of that time had access to texts that no longer exist today. Who could prove you wrong ... But I did learn something factual that I didn't know before. At one time Ancient Rome ruled over Ancient Egypt. In the grand scheme of things in the Who is Who and Where, that is a good piece of information to know concerning dates of things and events.
Not only ruled Egypt, as Egypt produced most of the grain for the Roman empire, it was the only Roman state that did not have a governor given the post for 3 years, the Roman emperor acted as governor of Egypt for the duration of his reign.
If I told you the whole story as it happened, rather than the pieces I've done for privacy sake, I would expect an atheist comeback to be --- that I'm relying on my conscience and coincidence to substantiate a belief in God. And that atheist would be right.
So no I'm not here to save you, (that power is within you) because I can't. All I can do is tell you about an experience I had once. That's it.
btw: I'll turn 62 soon and I'm still defiant. God has asked me (age 16) to write for Him. And I've told Him, Lord, people have written a great big book, I'm sure there is nothing that I could write that would make a difference, that that big book hasn't already.
So when you speak of punishment, I've got mine coming, soon. The vast majority of mankind has proven to me, there is no point to that task.
Umm...
You're HERE...on CD...writing for Him.
I think that qualifies...
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But I did learn something factual that I didn't know before. At one time Ancient Rome ruled over Ancient Egypt. In the grand scheme of things in the Who is Who and Where, that is a good piece of information to know concerning dates of things and events.
