Ben Franklin on Religion (myths, prophecy, Catholic, Jewish)
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We just finished watching a pretty good documentary about Alexander Hamilton...
Talk about "fake news!" In this program it was explained how back then the Federalists and the Republicans used to encourage journalists to publish false stories that their opponents had died. It worked, because after the news was published it took a long time before any correction could reach the public.
Seems things are not any worse today than they were then. Too bad that can't really be cause to feel any better about how nasty a business politics really was/is. Then and/or now.
It is disingenuous to talk about the Federalists and the Republicans of Alexander Hamilton's times in connection with current political parties.
The two parties at the time were the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans, which, although referred to as Republicans, have no connection to the current Republican party. The Democratic Republicans were in fact Jeffersonian in nature and morphed into the Democratic Party.
What they can't articulate very well but I believe they think is true:
1) Slippery slope concerns such as if we allow this eventually they will recruit / corrupt our children and in some unspecified way dilute the legitimacy and acceptance of "normative" behaviors (in this case heterosexuality). They act as if allowing gay marriage means someone is going to come into their home with a gun, force them to divorce their spouse and then marry someone of the same sex.
2) Notions of group responsibility. If they "condone" homosexuality then god will judge the whole nation for it, and them with it.
3) Exaggerated notions of homosexuals being caricatured, degenerate, evil people who want to destroy society, when all they want is to be equal participants. As a child in fundamentalism such proclivities were presented as being held by people who lived super hedonistic lives of utter dissipation. I didn't understand that they were just ordinary humans until I was an adult and began to actually meet them. For example when I was a technical editor for a magazine in the 90s my supervising editor was a lesbian with a license plate on her car, IM OWT. She actually did things besides shoot up drugs with needles, rob and terrorize her neighborhood, and participate in nightly orgies. Who knew! Once you meet a dozen LGBTQ persons and zero of those are bizarre caricatures of depravity and anarchy, you begin to realize your handlers have been lying about them. But the whole culture of fundamentalism works to keep people afraid of having any actual experience with gay people that isn't colored by snap judgments or preconceptions and stereotypes.
I'm always amused when a staunch fundagelical has one of their children "come out" as gay or trans. Some of course will do the shameful thing and disown the child. But many will just get very quiet and and go into stealth mode because they are decent enough to love their child unconditionally, and suddenly one of these degenerates they're on about turns out to be the wee one they once cradled in their arms and kissed the peach fuzz atop their noggin, and who is working towards a degree and a responsible place in society. It changes their "thinking" by actually forcing them to think -- generally for the very first time -- about the topic.
I think the procreation only angle is likely hypocritical for many of the people who make it.
To keep it family friendly, many straight men want or even prefer the mouth of their woman, but there is no procreation angle in that behavior.
It is disingenuous to talk about the Federalists and the Republicans of Alexander Hamilton's times in connection with current political parties.
The two parties at the time were the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans, which, although referred to as Republicans, have no connection to the current Republican party. The Democratic Republicans were in fact Jeffersonian in nature and morphed into the Democratic Party.
Disingenuous? I am most certainly well aware that the two parties I referred to from back in Hamilton's time are nothing like the two parties of today despite the similar names. I mean duh...
The point I was TRYING to make was/is that about "fake news" both then and now, regardless of party. Sheesh.
The wife doesn't hope for a child to follow every time just as much if not more.
Respect and treatment with regard to the LGBT community is not about sex or procreation however.
By the logic that gay sex is bad because no babies, then sex is also bad between heterosexual married couples when one or both partners cannot conceive. And indeed in classic fashion, it used to be common to discard "barren" women who could not "raise up seed for the father". And the assumption was always that the problem was with the woman, too. And a minority of Christians believe sex is bad except as a regrettable necessity for procreation.
I'd wager that, backwards as fundies can be, most do not think there is something sinful about making love to your wife if she has her tubes tied, or just for fun. It is only when the Hated Other does it that it's wrong.
By the logic that gay sex is bad because no babies, then sex is also bad between heterosexual married couples when one or both partners cannot conceive. And indeed in classic fashion, it used to be common to discard "barren" women who could not "raise up seed for the father". And the assumption was always that the problem was with the woman, too. And a minority of Christians believe sex is bad except as a regrettable necessity for procreation.
I'd wager that, backwards as fundies can be, most do not think there is something sinful about making love to your wife if she has her tubes tied, or just for fun. It is only when the Hated Other does it that it's wrong.
Not to defend the thinking we both don't seem to respect very much, I think the "logic" has more to do with what God had in mind for us to do naturally, and although there were some pretty ignorant ideas about men and/or women who could not conceive once upon a time, today the logic is more about the perceived plan God has for us, and there is nothing wrong with anything we do as long as it's natural. Natural as in keeping with this notion about what God intended us to be doing. Back to the Bible.
As always when it comes to these perceived God plans, the logic is always perceived to be quite sound as well.
I'm still waiting for you to provide me with some examplesof where you held religious organizations (like churches, denominations, temples, etc.) responsible for something negative. Several of us would like to see the balance.
Will this do?
"Spain’s Catholic church has said it will investigate antisemitic rituals after an Israeli newspaper revealed that towns and villages continue to commemorate the “blood libel” that Jews use the blood of Christian children in religious rituals.
The libel, that dates back at least to the early middle ages, was used to justify the expulsion of Spain’s Jewish population in 1492.
One of the most notorious is that of the Santo Niño de La Guardia in Toledo in central Spain. The myth dates back to 1480 when a child from the village was allegedly abducted and murdered by Jews, although at the time no child was reported missing. Each September villagers carry an effigy of the child to the church where it is blessed by the clergy over the course of a five-day festival. The child is venerated as a saint.
In the basilica of Zaragoza there’s a chapel dedicated to a child allegedly abducted and tortured by local Jews. On 13 October a special service is held in memory of the child.
“The case of the Niño de La Guardia is especially serious because year after year the civil authorities continue to support this celebration,” said Jacob Daniel Benzaquén. “It’s very sad that these events continue to this day and are celebrated with such enthusiasm and a shame that the ecclesiastical authorities haven’t put an end to them, despite our requests.”
"Anti-Christian vigilantes are sweeping through villages, storming churches, burning Christian literature, attacking schools and assaulting worshipers. In many cases, the police and members of India’s governing party are helping them, government documents and dozens of interviews revealed. In church after church, the very act of worship has become dangerous despite constitutional protections for freedom of religion.
To many Hindu extremists, the attacks are justified — a means of preventing religious conversions. To them, the possibility that some Indians, even a relatively small number, would reject Hinduism for Christianity is a threat to their dream of turning India into a pure Hindu nation. Many Christians have become so frightened that they try to pass as Hindu to protect themselves.
But across India, the anti-Christian forces are growing stronger by the day, and they have many faces, including a white-collar army of lawyers and clerks who file legal complaints against Christian organizations. They also devise devastating social boycotts against isolated Christians in remote villages. According to extensive interviews, Hindu nationalists have blocked Christians from community wells, barred them from visiting Hindu homes and ostracized villagers for believing in Jesus. Last year, in one town, they stopped people from gathering on Christmas."
"Spain’s Catholic church has said it will investigate antisemitic rituals after an Israeli newspaper revealed that towns and villages continue to commemorate the “blood libel” that Jews use the blood of Christian children in religious rituals.
The libel, that dates back at least to the early middle ages, was used to justify the expulsion of Spain’s Jewish population in 1492.
One of the most notorious is that of the Santo Niño de La Guardia in Toledo in central Spain. The myth dates back to 1480 when a child from the village was allegedly abducted and murdered by Jews, although at the time no child was reported missing. Each September villagers carry an effigy of the child to the church where it is blessed by the clergy over the course of a five-day festival. The child is venerated as a saint.
In the basilica of Zaragoza there’s a chapel dedicated to a child allegedly abducted and tortured by local Jews. On 13 October a special service is held in memory of the child.
“The case of the Niño de La Guardia is especially serious because year after year the civil authorities continue to support this celebration,” said Jacob Daniel Benzaquén. “It’s very sad that these events continue to this day and are celebrated with such enthusiasm and a shame that the ecclesiastical authorities haven’t put an end to them, despite our requests.”
"Anti-Christian vigilantes are sweeping through villages, storming churches, burning Christian literature, attacking schools and assaulting worshipers. In many cases, the police and members of India’s governing party are helping them, government documents and dozens of interviews revealed. In church after church, the very act of worship has become dangerous despite constitutional protections for freedom of religion.
To many Hindu extremists, the attacks are justified — a means of preventing religious conversions. To them, the possibility that some Indians, even a relatively small number, would reject Hinduism for Christianity is a threat to their dream of turning India into a pure Hindu nation. Many Christians have become so frightened that they try to pass as Hindu to protect themselves.
But across India, the anti-Christian forces are growing stronger by the day, and they have many faces, including a white-collar army of lawyers and clerks who file legal complaints against Christian organizations. They also devise devastating social boycotts against isolated Christians in remote villages. According to extensive interviews, Hindu nationalists have blocked Christians from community wells, barred them from visiting Hindu homes and ostracized villagers for believing in Jesus. Last year, in one town, they stopped people from gathering on Christmas."
No, that won't do because my point of the post was that that particular poster never seemed to hold religion responsible for anything except good things. The lack of balance.
"Spain’s Catholic church has said it will investigate antisemitic rituals after an Israeli newspaper revealed that towns and villages continue to commemorate the “blood libel” that Jews use the blood of Christian children in religious rituals.
The libel, that dates back at least to the early middle ages, was used to justify the expulsion of Spain’s Jewish population in 1492.
One of the most notorious is that of the Santo Niño de La Guardia in Toledo in central Spain. The myth dates back to 1480 when a child from the village was allegedly abducted and murdered by Jews, although at the time no child was reported missing. Each September villagers carry an effigy of the child to the church where it is blessed by the clergy over the course of a five-day festival. The child is venerated as a saint.
In the basilica of Zaragoza there’s a chapel dedicated to a child allegedly abducted and tortured by local Jews. On 13 October a special service is held in memory of the child.
“The case of the Niño de La Guardia is especially serious because year after year the civil authorities continue to support this celebration,” said Jacob Daniel Benzaquén. “It’s very sad that these events continue to this day and are celebrated with such enthusiasm and a shame that the ecclesiastical authorities haven’t put an end to them, despite our requests.”
Good that tge Churches are investigating what some people are doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767
Here's another:
"Anti-Christian vigilantes are sweeping through villages, storming churches, burning Christian literature, attacking schools and assaulting worshipers. In many cases, the police and members of India’s governing party are helping them, government documents and dozens of interviews revealed. In church after church, the very act of worship has become dangerous despite constitutional protections for freedom of religion.
To many Hindu extremists, the attacks are justified — a means of preventing religious conversions. To them, the possibility that some Indians, even a relatively small number, would reject Hinduism for Christianity is a threat to their dream of turning India into a pure Hindu nation. Many Christians have become so frightened that they try to pass as Hindu to protect themselves.
But across India, the anti-Christian forces are growing stronger by the day, and they have many faces, including a white-collar army of lawyers and clerks who file legal complaints against Christian organizations. They also devise devastating social boycotts against isolated Christians in remote villages. According to extensive interviews, Hindu nationalists have blocked Christians from community wells, barred them from visiting Hindu homes and ostracized villagers for believing in Jesus. Last year, in one town, they stopped people from gathering on Christmas."
Hinduism has been politicized to ugly and violent extent and the present govt. is fanning the divisions with promotion of nationalism. It is the govt.’ responsibility to preserve law and order. Unfortunately the majority party is complicity in the violence.
Hinduism has no central governing body or organization that has any control over state and political affairs. Hindus are responsible for their own criminal acts.
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