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Got it. However divinity exists is not a claim. It is knowing. It is a resolution in the mind that arises from spiritual inquiry within oneself, and by means of eliminating what it is not one comes to the understanding that divinity is not an object, It is always the subject within, because of which we know, and we know that we know.
What kind of evidence do you suppose would prove this to you? What would the evidence look like?
And who is a accountable?
Really?
Claiming to know something is not a claim. Please...
here's the difference. when you hand her the money, she counts it herself.
when you ask for evidence to be provided to you by someone else, then you are having someone else do the counting for you. you're not counting it yourself.
so if you want evidence then you count it yourself. you engage in the path and the practice.
otherwise, defeats the purpose.
Here's the thing...
If the facts or truths about anything matter to us, then most people are inclined to insure those claims are well justified. If of no matter to us, we don't bother.
In the same way if it matters to us whether there is $100 in that wad, we're likely to count it. The more it matters to us, the more careful the count.
Trust, faith, is often taken into account, but even when the claim is made by someone we trust, when it comes to what matters most, people are well advised to "be safe rather than sorry."
It is still not clear to me. Possibly we are looking at the situation from different perspectives. I have no wish to engage with atheists to discuss Vedanta. Perhaps i did once thinking it was an honest engagement between equals. I no longer do.
OJ was acquitted on the claim of lack of evidence. “If it don’t fit, you must acquit .” Very few people believed he was innocent. To hang our hat on evidence is a dangerous thing. In fact it is nothing. Innocent people have spent a major part of their lives in prison and released when new evidence surfaced. Innocent people have been executed on false evidence. Scientific facts have changed with new evidence. Our lives have changed due to new evidence.
I rarely if ever have the notion I'm having a discussion "with equals." No two of us are the same in terms of our abilities to think or learn or know what we do. No two of us devotes the same amount of effort or consideration when it comes to any subject or focus of attention. We're all different, think differently, learn differently, come from different backgrounds and have developed different perspectives, and whether we agree or disagree about anything, or become devotees to whatever we choose, there are many ways to consider who is more or less equal with regard to knowing what we can about what is truth and what is not. What suits our way of living and what doesn't, and all in between.
Otherwise, I'm not sure ANY discussion about ANYTHING could happen if the sort of equality you are suggesting were necessary, or even better. As I recall mentioned some time ago in this forum, no one is expert about anything here as a general rule. Other than about what goes on in their own mind.
but if she wants to know how much money there is, the only way she will ever really know is to count it herself.
i had a teacher. i very much wanted to learn from this teacher. each time we met, i had a long list of questions and i asked question after question after question. and the teacher did not answer. meeting after meeting i would ask questions, and meeting after meeting the teacher sat there calmly and said nothing.
it took me a long long time to realize what indeed the teacher was conveying to me.
That you were annoying her with too many questions?
I have to respectfully suggest you are in no position to gauge where I was or am intellectually compared to you...
As for what applies here in this forum or thread or what does not, I caution you to be careful about the assumptions you make about that too. I have been a part of this forum and this thread long enough to know that according to others, there isn't much I've commented about that DOESN'T apply to the R&S topics, or at least the threads I have started or been a part of.
All to say where you were or are intellectually and all the rest is your opinion. No more and no less. As such no more worthy than mine or anyone else posting in this forum who doesn't get banished. Why you and others keep arguing this contrary point of view is hard to understand at this point. Let it go already...
The "why" is because you actually seem to THINK your atheistic view of our Reality as regards R&S topics is de rigueur based on universal facts and unquestionably true. But that is just your opinion. No more and no less. As such no more worthy than mine or anyone else posting in this forum who doesn't get banished.
Claiming to know something is not a claim. Please...
It is not merely clam when something needs to be known. It is a knowing. When you hear orange, you know what that is, it forms in your mind. Is that a claim or a knowing? That the Self exists works on the mind the same way once it is understood. It is a knowing.
You are not required to believe any of this or accept or anything. It is actually better you do not attempt to do so. But i like discussing these concepts in the forum with others who are similarly moved by spirituality and would like to do so without having to explain these concepts to ypu who is not ready for it. It requires an understanding of a vocabulary that escapes you.
You are fine as you are without being educated about something you have no interest in. Why do you persist?
I rarely if ever have the notion I'm having a discussion "with equals." No two of us are the same in terms of our abilities to think or learn or know what we do. No two of us devotes the same amount of effort or consideration when it comes to any subject or focus of attention. We're all different, think differently, learn differently, come from different backgrounds and have developed different perspectives, and whether we agree or disagree about anything, or become devotees to whatever we choose, there are many ways to consider who is more or less equal with regard to knowing what we can about what is truth and what is not. What suits our way of living and what doesn't, and all in between.
Otherwise, I'm not sure ANY discussion about ANYTHING could happen if the sort of equality you are suggesting were necessary, or even better. As I recall mentioned some time ago in this forum, no one is expert about anything here as a general rule. Other than about what goes on in their own mind.
That is your experience and opinion. And that is sad.
I have had discussions with posters, present and past, here and elsewhere, with great resonance which is very pleasurable. I wish to engage with those who are my equals, and those who see me the same way.
“ Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.”
True words, thank you, Max
It is still not clear to me. Possibly we are looking at the situation from different perspectives. I have no wish to engage with atheists to discuss Vedanta. Perhaps i did once thinking it was an honest engagement between equals. I no longer do.
OJ was acquitted on the claim of lack of evidence. “If it don’t fit, you must acquit .” Very few people believed he was innocent. To hang our hat on evidence is a dangerous thing. In fact it is nothing. Innocent people have spent a major part of their lives in prison and released when new evidence surfaced. Innocent people have been executed on false evidence. Scientific facts have changed with new evidence. Our lives have changed due to new evidence.
Yes. I would say that there would be little to no progress discussing Vedanta with an atheist especially if they have limitations that were mentioned earlier. Sometimes the limitations are intentional, though, but it would still lead to a dead end.
Additionally, I find that I enjoy people's opinions and explanations about texts more interesting than the text itself. I don't think that is really an atheist thing.
but if she wants to know how much money there is, the only way she will ever really know is to count it herself.
i had a teacher. i very much wanted to learn from this teacher. each time we met, i had a long list of questions and i asked question after question after question. and the teacher did not answer. meeting after meeting i would ask questions, and meeting after meeting the teacher sat there calmly and said nothing.
it took me a long long time to realize what indeed the teacher was conveying to me.
I once met a person, whose name will now stir up controversy if brought up in certain circles, who did not want to be called a teacher because he said that he does not give answers. He said, "A question is a quest and the person asking the question is the one to go on this quest." I can see this perspective, but I think there is an alternative explanation. A teacher is one who points things out that may answer a question. When I say may, I don't mean that the teacher intentionally pointed something out that is unrelated. Instead, it is the one who asked the question that may not see the relationship.
I once met a person, whose name will now stir up controversy if brought up in certain circles, who did not want to be called a teacher because he said that he does not give answers. He said, "A question is a quest and the person asking the question is the one to go on this quest." I can see this perspective, but I think there is an alternative explanation. A teacher is one who points things out that may answer a question. When I say may, I don't mean that the teacher intentionally pointed something out that is unrelated. Instead, it is the one who asked the question that may not see the relationship.
A teacher is one who helps you understand, not just the text, but all the implications.
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