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Some time ago, LearnMe started a thread about the "Ten Truths" that are the foundation his thinking. That thread predictably veered off into other areas. More recently, a discussion of the Ten Truths surfaced on another unrelated thread. LearnMe suggested that I and perhaps others had mischaracterized and too quickly dismissed his Ten Truths. He invited a more substantive response, specifically from me but surely from others who also think deeply about these matters.
This is my more substantive response. I’ll simply offer my observations on each Truth. I’ll try to stay as neutral and non-snarky as I can. It would be wonderful – but perhaps I’m hoping against all hope – if the thread could remain substantive, free of the non-sequiturs, inane cheerleading, mindless emojis and snarky one-liners that substitute for thought and quickly derail almost every thread.
TEN TRUTHS
ONE: There are essentially two realities for all human beings. One reality is as we perceive it to be, our personal reality. The second reality is all that truly exists in the universe, the same for all of us. Our universal truth.
I’d say there are three realities: (1) ourselves, as we perceive ourselves to be; (2) external reality as we perceive it with our senses and analyze it with our minds; and (3) ultimate ontological reality – i.e., the Truth – about ourselves and external reality.
The first one is a big one. Who and what are we? This mystery is what led Descartes to conclude that all he could really know was “I think, therefore I am.”
What are my senses and mind? Can I trust them? Must I not be as skeptical of myself as I am of all externalities? This is one of the points that famed epistemologist Alvin Plantinga raises in his worthwhile book, Where the Conflict Really Lies: Science, Religion, and Naturalism. Particularly if the naturalistic evolutionary paradigm were correct, what reason would I have for trusting my own thought processes, for believing they are reliable truth-recognizing and truth-analyzing tools?
We do, of course, all believe they are reliable, or the quest for Truth would be hopeless. Even at a less philosophical level, however, each individual must still must assess his or her own cognitive faculties. We aren’t all equally intelligent or rational. Even the most intelligent and rational of us have cognitive biases and quirks. Sometimes we can’t explain them even if we’re aware of them.
I’d thus say “Know yourself” is the first critical stage of a quest for Truth. This seems to be completely absent from LearnMe’s Ten Truths.
My other observation would be that LearnMe appears to equate ultimate ontological reality with “all that truly exists in the universe.” This begs the question, assumes the answer. What reason do we have for assuming a priori that “the universe” is the ultimate ontological reality?
Philosophical naturalism does make this assumption. But it’s merely a belief system like any other. This assumption is no more warranted in the abstract than is an a priori assumption there is a higher realty and perhaps a creator.
The fact is, science is capable of investigating and analyzing only the natural order. If there is a higher reality, science isn’t any more capable of discovering it than is philosophy or religion.
All that science, religion or philosophy can do is speculate about the existence and nature of a higher reality. But there is no reason to assume a priori that there is or isn’t a higher reality. This is the mistake of philosophical naturalism.
Scientific research and evidence are certainly relevant to the issue. This is the point of the Intelligent Design theorists, and it seems entirely valid to me: Let the best evidence – the best scientific evidence – speak for itself and lead where it leads. If it leads to “design” and the likelihood of an external designer as the best explanation, so be it. If it doesn’t, so be it.
TWO: Human beings cannot know all that exists in the universe. The universe is forever in flux, full of mystery that will forever be marveled and explored by Man as long as he survives.
Surely, this is true. As I’ve said, however, there does seem to be an uncanny relationship between (1) an orderly universe that operates according to discernible laws and principles, and (2) the existence of humans with minds and faculties capable of investigating and analyzing this universe. I find this somewhat evidential in its own right, even apart from any arguments about the extraordinary fine-tuning of the universe and our little corner for the existence of life.
This second Truth just underscores what I said about the First. If the natural order (universe) is beyond our full comprehension, then any higher reality certainly is. We can know this higher reality – if it exists – only as it reveals itself or otherwise intrudes into our reality.
THREE: The first reality for human beings manifests itself in all the great many beliefs and faiths throughout the world; from Astrology to Zoraoastianism. Many books also stem from these beliefs; the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad-Gita, Speaking of Faith, The Celestine Prophecy, the Book of Mormon and others. These are the books about men such as Jesus, Mohammad, Moses and Joseph Smith.
This loses me. LearnMe’s “first reality” is “personal reality,” meaning reality as we perceive it. I don’t see why he would equate this with religious beliefs and faiths.
I’d say our first level of personal reality is our assessment of what science teaches about the natural order. Even here, science isn't even close to being a monolithic entity. Each individual must decide for himself what constitutes the best scientific evidence and thinking about the natural order. With something like geology, there may be close to a scientific consensus. But in disciplines like physics, cosmology and consciousness studies, however, there is a wide diversity of views and much speculation.
Perhaps an individual concludes that the best scientific evidence and thinking point toward atheistic naturalism. This, then, is his personal reality, with no need for religious belief or faith. But perhaps he concludes that the best evidence and thinking point to something more, a higher reality. Science can’t take him any further. If he wants to go further, he must look elsewhere. The search may culminate in agnosticism or some level of atheistic or theistic conviction. A rational individual accepts that he will never achieve certainty.
The various scriptures are irrelevant at this point. Unless and until I reach a conviction about Christianity (for example), the Bible is irrelevant. It doesn’t define my personal reality or assist me in defining it to any greater extent than does the Koran, the Gita or the atheistic philosophy of Bertrand Russell.
FOUR: The second reality, all that exists in the universe, known or unknown, is disclosed to Man most accurately and peacefully by way of well documented history (rather than religious books) and empirical science (rather than theology). Universal truth is all we can accept as reality, the truth, with the most certainty and least conflict. What we can all most reasonably accept as true for all concerned.
I once again make essentially the same point. Yes, science – with all its flaws and checkered history – is our most reliable tool for investigating and analyzing the natural order.
But you can see once again what LearnMe has done here. He has assumed a priori that “the universe” is equivalent to “reality.” This is an unwarranted assumption. This is philosophical naturalism.
As I’ve suggested above, if science proceeded solely on the basis of methodological naturalism rather than the question-begging and answer-assuming basis of philosophical naturalism, the best scientific theory might well be “an intelligent designer occupying a higher reality, even though science can take us no further.” Philosophical naturalism forecloses any such theory from the get-go. Any other theory, no matter how utterly speculative and unfalsifiable, is entitled to a fair hearing so long as it posits an explanation that may be characterized as naturalistic.
FIVE: Faith is spawned from the human inclination to speculate or suppose beyond universal truth as determined and defined by science. Such notions, religions, often involve spirituality or a belief in an energy, power or force. A belief in a deity, god or gods, the supernatural. These notions that go beyond common human awareness are typically based or recognized more by emotions and feelings rather than facts, reason and logic. They typically call for faith rather than proof, all stemming from personal experience rather than common observation or scientific verification.
This seems to me to go off the rails.
LearnMe once again tips his hand: “universal truth as determined and defined by science.” Science investigates and analyzes the natural order. If the natural order were all that existed, and if science were able to explain it to a level of scientific certainty, then it would be appropriate to speak of science as determining and defining universal truth.
But this is the key question to which LearnMe simply assumes the answer: Is the natural order in fact all that exists?
Even for many renowned scientists, ancient and modern, the answer has been a resounding no. This fact in itself should give anyone pause about LearnMe’s perspective.
People, including scientists, look beyond science precisely because they conclude that (1) what science does teach about the natural order isn’t a completely satisfactory explanation of ultimate ontological reality and may in fact point to a higher reality, and (2) other avenues of inquiry may have as much or more bearing on the existence and nature of a higher reality.
These other avenues of inquiry may include the individual’s own experiences and observations; the experiences and observations of others; the individual’s studies in history, philosophy and theology; and the individual’s reflection and intuition.
LearnMe says that notions of a higher reality “go beyond common human awareness.” No, they certainly don’t. They are often grounded precisely in common human experience and awareness. This is surely why the vast majority of humans have arrived at some species of theist belief, even though the specific beliefs may vary widely.
LearnMe further says that such notions “are typically based or recognized more by emotions and feelings rather than facts, reason and logic. They typically call for faith rather than proof, all stemming from personal experience rather than common observation or scientific verification.”
As I’ve asked previously, what does someone like LearnMe think occurs when a Nobel laureate chemist or biologist holds theistic beliefs? Is the scientist overwhelmed by emotion in this one area of his life for some mysterious reason? Does he mysteriously lose all ability to think logically and rationally?
LearnMe’s statements reflect the arrogance of one wedded to philosophical naturalism and indeed Scientism. They reflect a complete misunderstanding as to how a diligent seeker goes about the quest for Truth and of the evidence that is available.
I happen to have had a number of experiences pointing toward the survival of consciousness, the existence of a higher reality and the falseness of the naturalistic paradigm. Literally hundreds of millions of people across recorded history have had identical experiences. These experiences and the people who have them have been investigated and assessed to the extent science is able. Only someone wedded to philosophical naturalism insists that this vast body of evidence – which admittedly may or may not point in the direction it seems to point – must be ignored or ridiculed because it challenges the naturalistic paradigm.
Areas of science point in the same direction. Big Bang cosmology, Intelligent Design, anthropomorphic fine-tuning, laboratory PSI studies, quantum physics, origin-of-life studies, consciousness studies, and on and on. Do all or any of these point unequivocally to a higher reality? No, but much of the increasingly mainstream thinking in these areas is at least consistent with the notion and is very challenging to the naturalistic paradigm. I've previously mentioned Bernardo Kastrup, who publishes almost exclusively in peer-reviewed journals and who believes the model most consistent with the evidence is idealism (i.e., consciousness as fundamental - pretty much the opposite of naturalism). Only someone wedded to philosophical naturalism insists this is all bogus, all pseudoscience, all unworthy of even being considered.
The point being, such a quest is not necessarily driven by emotions and feelings any more (or less) than is an a priori commitment to philosophical naturalism. It can be as logical and rational as any purely scientific quest. The evidence is as compelling or deficient as the quality of the quest. What brings one person to a particular conviction may bring someone else to a different conviction.
LearnMe doesn't get to decide for me or anyone else (1) whether the best science should lead to philosophical naturalism (it doesn’t do this even for many of the best scientists); (2) what bodies of evidence (scientific and otherwise) and what inferences and arguments (scientific and otherwise) we should rely upon in our quest for a higher reality; and (3) what conclusions we should reach and what convictions we should hold.
One major problem I'll acknowledge is that disturbed individuals, frightening zealots, mindless cultists, credulous dupes and people driven entirely by emotions are undeniably over-represented in the ranks of religious believers. This can certainly create the appearance that religion is only for the simple-minded and uncritical. But this is by no means always the case. LearnMe’s dismissive characterization paints with far too broad a brush.
SIX: Man’s ability to theorize is a faculty that allows Man to advance toward greater awareness and understanding of universal truth. The theoretical guides Man to further scientific discovery. However, when conjecture about the supernatural leads to faith and religious inculcation rather facts, reason and logic, great harm can and does come to Man instead. This is because the great majority of people still today cannot accept the confines of science. Instead conjecture is continuously promoted as truth ultimately to the point of creating profound divisions between people resulting in great conflict, violence and war still raging to this day; the Crusades, Protestants v Catholics, Jews v Muslims, Shiites v Sunnis.
This seems to go even further off the rails.
The “great majority of people still today cannot accept the confines of science.” Why should any human being uncritically accept the “confines of science” (a peculiarly apt phrase, since philosophical naturalism and Scientism are indeed an intellectual straitjacket)? Science may or may not provide a fully satisfactory explanation of reality. For most people, including me, it doesn’t. In any event, we are entitled to evaluate the merits and decide for ourselves.
LearnMe again assumes without warrant that beliefs about a higher reality are inevitably grounded in nothing more than uninformed “conjecture about the supernatural.” This is arrogant and false.
Certainly, people who have reached strong convictions about the nature of a higher reality are going to promote and defend them, particularly if their religion demands this. Few wars, however, have had religious differences at their core. The human lust for power, as well as political, economic and social differences, are what mostly keep people and nations at each other’s throats. It’s perhaps noteworthy that scientific advancements have been largely in the direction of making conflict and war ever more ghastly.
SEVEN: The alternative skeptical challenge and test of faith to limit spiritual conjecture is to foster a greater respect for the truth as currently defined or understood by science. Science is the most universally accepted effort to arrive at truth with no agenda other than greater knowledge and understanding of universal truth for all human beings. This path or quest of scientific discovery offers the way to peace instead of the sure madness that arises from the significant amount of conflict between differing faiths. As Man learns to universally accept both the great promise and reasonable limits of what science can teach, the source of conflict between Man is diminished, the path toward progress cleared and the prospect of peace improved.
This is just naïve - almost utopian - Scientism.
As a believer, I welcome skeptical challenge. I have religious convictions, but none that place me in a straitjacket as confining as philosophical naturalism.
LearnMe’s hope is to “foster greater respect for the truth as currently defined or understood by science.” How does this differ qualitatively from the hope of a Christian proselytizer or Muslim jihadist to convert the world to their truth? It seems to LearnMe to differ only because he is convinced philosophical naturalism is the answer.
My objective is the best possible understanding of ultimate ontological reality that I can achieve in this lifetime. If I thought science had been capable of providing that understanding, I would’ve limited my inquiry to science – but I didn’t, and neither do many other sincere and diligent seekers.
“Science is the most universally accepted effort to arrive at truth with no agenda other than greater knowledge and understanding of universal truth for all human beings.” Again, this is a quasi-religious sentiment. It assumes, once again, that ultimate ontological truth lies within the natural order. Worse, the “no agenda” remark naively assumes that scientists are free from human nature. Even science doesn’t assume this, which is why it demands falsifiability and peer review. Science is an area of human endeavor, no better or worse than any other.
Science “offers the way to peace.” Really – is this what LearnMe thinks history shows? Science isn’t, in the abstract, the way to either peace or conflict. It has greatly facilitated conflict, but this is the fault of human nature rather than science.
Once again, LearnMe’s sentiments are quasi-religious. The fact is, worldwide conflict would be reduced just as much (or more) if all humans were committed Christian fundamentalists, Islamic fundamentalists or Scientologists as if all humans were naturalistic atheists.
EIGHT: Science fosters the peace of a universal patience and acceptance of our common condition and experience as humans. Faith forbids followers to question thus retarding Man's progress. Science encourages inquiry thus expanding Man's awareness and enlightenment. Faith typically deems any question about God's existence as evil in nature, not to be tolerated. Science has no such restrictions or judgement. Accordingly, there is no manner in which to reconcile these two competing approaches toward revealing Man's universal truth.
I won't keep beating this to death.
“Faith typically deems any question about God's existence as evil in nature, not to be tolerated.” This is just absurd. LearnMe’s view of religion is as skewed as his view of science. He apparently thinks all religious believers are closed-minded, wild-eyed zealots. How many religious believers whom you know fit this description? Almost all Christian denominations and almost all other religions have a long history of ecumenical dialogue and welcome scrutiny of their claims.
NINE: Faith can and does promote goodwill between some people. Creation of beautiful places of worship, help for those in need, community and comfort through difficult times. Even a code of conduct necessary for some to be moral. Yes of course, but with the good there is no need for the bad or falsehoods. Truth is best realized and peace most successfully promoted as more people patiently accept and embrace Man's common reality as revealed, defined and/or revised by science. The movement toward this patience and acceptance very slowly growing from one century to the next is the maturing of Man. His best chance for lasting peace and true understanding of all that exists in the universe, proven or yet to be proven.
No further comment. This is pure Scientism, science as the religion of the future. I'm guessing LearnMe is a big sci-fi fan.
TEN: People of faith will deny if not condemn these truths for many reasons; from fear of god to fear of no god. Fear of death to fear of Hell. Typically beginning with the significant influence of inculcation at a young impressionable age, the subsequent effects of confirmation bias over time, development of ego and bigotry all prevent objective reason and logic to prevail for Man as quickly as it should. Instead the condemnation persists even to this day much like when Galileo was even imprisoned for attempting to overcome these same obstacles centuries ago. Much like the Jesuits denounced Elvis Presley. Much like Harry Potter books are banned in Catholic schools today. The ignorance and intolerance persists. Much like the ongoing effort to overcome the ills of racism, sexism, xenophobia and homophobia that also still persist today, the effort to overcome these backward ways very slowly and painfully is the progress of Man that each generation represents better than the last.
LearnMe seems unaware of the actual beneficial effects of religion – and specifically Christianity – on science and every other aspect of human civilization and culture, even on the various “ills” he cites. Even atheists have acknowledged and written about it – quite extensively. The examples LearnMe cites – did the Jesuits denounce Elvis? – are childish and reflect a woefully uninformed perspective.
It seems to me that the Ten Truths deteriorate badly as one progresses through them. It seems to me that the Scientism and disdain for religion become ever-more-apparent. Just as LearnMe might say about me or any other religious believer, his Ten Truths seem transparently to be driven by emotions and feelings more than reason and logic. Certainly by the time we reach Truth Five and beyond, something other than logic and clear thinking is driving the bus.
Science is an activity that seeks to explore the natural world using well-established, clearly-delineated methods. Given the complexity of the universe, from the very big to very small, from inorganic to organic, there is a vast array of scientific disciplines, each with its own specific techniques. The number of different specializations is constantly increasing, leading to more questions and areas of exploration than ever before. Science expands our understanding, rather than limiting it.
Scientism, on the other hand, is a speculative worldview about the ultimate reality of the universe and its meaning. Despite the fact that there are millions of species on our planet, scientism focuses an inordinate amount of its attention on human behavior and beliefs. Rather than working within carefully constructed boundaries and methodologies established by researchers, it broadly generalizes entire fields of academic expertise and dismisses many of them as inferior. With scientism, you will regularly hear explanations that rely on words like “merely”, “only”, “simply”, or “nothing more than”. Scientism restricts human inquiry.
It is one thing to celebrate science for its achievements and remarkable ability to explain a wide variety of phenomena in the natural world. But to claim there is nothing knowable outside the scope of science would be similar to a successful fisherman saying that whatever he can’t catch in his nets does not exist. Once you accept that science is the only source of human knowledge, you have adopted a philosophical position (scientism) that cannot be verified, or falsified, by science itself. It is, in a word, unscientific.
Last edited by Irkle Berserkle; 09-29-2021 at 01:12 PM..
Some time ago, LearnMe started a thread about the "Ten Truths" that are the foundation his thinking. That thread predictably veered off into other areas. More recently, a discussion of the Ten Truths surfaced on another unrelated thread. LearnMe suggested that I and perhaps others had mischaracterized and too quickly dismissed his Ten Truths. He invited a more substantive response, specifically from me but surely from others who also think deeply about these matters.
This is my more substantive response. I’ll simply offer my observations on each Truth. I’ll try to stay as neutral and non-snarky as I can. It would be wonderful – but perhaps I’m hoping against all hope – if the thread could remain substantive, free of the non-sequiturs, inane cheerleading, mindless emojis and snarky one-liners that substitute for thought and quickly derail almost every thread.
It will take me a bit of time to read through everything and to comment.
But just wanted to say Bravo. I fully support this.
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle View Post
Some time ago, LearnMe started a thread about the "Ten Truths" that are the foundation his thinking. That thread predictably veered off into other areas. More recently, a discussion of the Ten Truths surfaced on another unrelated thread. LearnMe suggested that I and perhaps others had mischaracterized and too quickly dismissed his Ten Truths. He invited a more substantive response, specifically from me but surely from others who also think deeply about these matters.
This is my more substantive response. I’ll simply offer my observations on each Truth. I’ll try to stay as neutral and non-snarky as I can. It would be wonderful – but perhaps I’m hoping against all hope – if the thread could remain substantive, free of the non-sequiturs, inane cheerleading, mindless emojis and snarky one-liners that substitute for thought and quickly derail almost every thread.
What kind of a discussion are you expecting? On the Original Ten Truths? Or on your response?
What keeps me up at night is this: Is LearMe trying to displace Moses? Why 10? Why not 5 or 12? Why not 613?
What kind of a discussion are you expecting? On the Original Ten Truths? Or on your response?
What keeps me up at night is this: Is LearMe trying to displace Moses? Why 10? Why not 5 or 12? Why not 613?
i find it amusing that someone quotes themself so frequently. instead of simply engaging in an actual conversation or discussion, there is this constant self-promotion. it reminds me of that greek story about the guy who admired himself in the pond, it has that element of self-adulation. sort of like a toddler going through potty training telling everyone "look at what i made! come see what i made." that's what comes to mind.
sort of like that saying "enough talking about myself. now you tell me what you think of me."
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-29-2021 at 04:14 PM..
i find it amusing that someone quotes themself so frequently. instead of simply engaging in an actual conversation or discussion, there is this constant self-promotion. it reminds me of that greek story about the guy who admired himself in the pond, it has that element of self-adulation. sort of like a toddler going through potty training telling everyone "look at what i made! come see what i made." that's what comes to mind.
sort of like that saying "enough talk about me. now you tell me what you think of me."
I'd rather listen to someone talk about what they believe rather than fault find other people.
Some time ago, LearnMe started a thread about the "Ten Truths" that are the foundation his thinking. That thread predictably veered off into other areas. More recently, a discussion of the Ten Truths surfaced on another unrelated thread. LearnMe suggested that I and perhaps others had mischaracterized and too quickly dismissed his Ten Truths. He invited a more substantive response, specifically from me but surely from others who also think deeply about these matters.
This is my more substantive response. I’ll simply offer my observations on each Truth. I’ll try to stay as neutral and non-snarky as I can. It would be wonderful – but perhaps I’m hoping against all hope – if the thread could remain substantive, free of the non-sequiturs, inane cheerleading, mindless emojis and snarky one-liners that substitute for thought and quickly derail almost every thread.
TEN TRUTHS
ONE: There are essentially two realities for all human beings. One reality is as we perceive it to be, our personal reality. The second reality is all that truly exists in the universe, the same for all of us. Our universal truth.
I’d say there are three realities: (1) ourselves, as we perceive ourselves to be; (2) external reality as we perceive it with our senses and analyze it with our minds; and (3) ultimate ontological reality – i.e., the Truth – about ourselves and external reality.
The first one is a big one. Who and what are we? This mystery is what led Descartes to conclude that all he could really know was “I think, therefore I am.”
What are my senses and mind? Can I trust them? Must I not be as skeptical of myself as I am of all externalities? This is one of the points that famed epistemologist Alvin Plantinga raises in his worthwhile book, Where the Conflict Really Lies: Science, Religion, and Naturalism. Particularly if the naturalistic evolutionary paradigm were correct, what reason would I have for trusting my own thought processes, for believing they are reliable truth-recognizing and truth-analyzing tools?
We do, of course, all believe they are reliable, or the quest for Truth would be hopeless. Even at a less philosophical level, however, each individual must still must assess his or her own cognitive faculties. We aren’t all equally intelligent or rational. Even the most intelligent and rational of us have cognitive biases and quirks. Sometimes we can’t explain them even if we’re aware of them.
I’d thus say “Know yourself” is the first critical stage of a quest for Truth. This seems to be completely absent from LearnMe’s Ten Truths.
My other observation would be that LearnMe appears to equate ultimate ontological reality with “all that truly exists in the universe.” This begs the question, assumes the answer. What reason do we have for assuming a priori that “the universe” is the ultimate ontological reality?
Philosophical naturalism does make this assumption. But it’s merely a belief system like any other. This assumption is no more warranted in the abstract than is an a priori assumption there is a higher realty and perhaps a creator.
The fact is, science is capable of investigating and analyzing only the natural order. If there is a higher reality, science isn’t any more capable of discovering it than is philosophy or religion.
All that science, religion, or philosophy can do is speculate about the existence and nature of a higher reality. But there is no reason to assume a priori that there is or isn’t a higher reality. This is the mistake of philosophical naturalism.
Scientific research and evidence are certainly relevant to the issue. This is the point of the Intelligent Design theorists, and it seems entirely valid to me: Let the best evidence – the best scientific evidence – speak for itself and lead where it leads. If it leads to “design” and the likelihood of an external designer as the best explanation, so be it. If it doesn’t, so be it.
This thread is an excellent substantive response that covers several issues that will require individual responses. My overall reaction is to agree with your assessment and summary of LearnMe's approach AS Scientism. After the first five, his emotional investment and conviction in what you properly characterize as his "religion of Scientism" are clearly revealed. Equally evident is his disdain for theism which he seems to equate almost exclusively with what is found in the various religions.
To the specifics of this response to Assumption ONE of his Ten Assumptions, I find much merit in the Socratic "know yourself first" and prefer your tripartite breakdown to his dichotomy. I agree wholeheartedly with your use of Plantinga's questioning of our ability to trust that our thought processes can recognize and analyze the truthfulness of the stimuli we interact with.
The revelations of Quantum Field Theory and its ilk create significant questions about our ability to determine the ontology of anything about our Reality. I suspect that LearnMe would counter that it just needs to work to facilitate our interactions at the macro level which seems to be the only real concern he has about ontology.
You correctly recognize that he unwarrantedly assumes philosophical naturalism is true and equates it to the observable universe accessible to science. This ignores the measurement limitations and constraints on the ability of science to represent, investigate, and discover the ontology of what is being investigated. I think he ignores this using a similar rationale to the preceding paragraph about its macrolevel relevance. That it just happens to conveniently support his preference for philosophical naturalism again without warrant seems not to phase him. It is his religion, after all.
Your tendency to use Intelligent Design to characterize the ontology we seek to understand regrettably invokes unnecessary baggage from the Creationism and Discovery Institute debacle that made it to the courts. I stay away from such language for that reason. But that the ontology of our Reality is best characterized as founded in consciousness is broadly hinted at in the quantum literature, is revealed in the effects of an observer, and is a phenomenon we all are intimately familiar with in our own experience of consciousness. Besides, a conscious Reality would have to be acknowledged as God.
Scientism, on the other hand, is a speculative worldview about the ultimate reality of the universe and its meaning. Despite the fact that there are millions of species on our planet, scientism focuses an inordinate amount of its attention on human behavior and beliefs. Rather than working within carefully constructed boundaries and methodologies established by researchers, it broadly generalizes entire fields of academic expertise and dismisses many of them as inferior. With scientism, you will regularly hear explanations that rely on words like “merely”, “only”, “simply”, or “nothing more than”. [b]Scientism restricts human inquiry.
It is one thing to celebrate science for its achievements and remarkable ability to explain a wide variety of phenomena in the natural world. But to claim there is nothing knowable outside the scope of science would be similar to a successful fisherman saying that whatever he can’t catch in his nets does not exist. Once you accept that science is the only source of human knowledge, you have adopted a philosophical position (scientism) that cannot be verified, or falsified, by science itself. It is, in a word, unscientific.
i agree with the premise put forth in the opening post regarding "Science as a religion" that there are those who worship at the altar of science.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-29-2021 at 04:28 PM..
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