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Most of Christianity, at least the Southern kind, is a cult, or cult-ish. I never lived in a commune or followed one person, but I was a brain-washed Zombie. You can't even see that YOU are in a cult. You're even trying to defend it and say it isn't a cult. Delivering people???? That's hilarious. Only kind of delivering that cults are doing is false information. All lies and a way to control people. Poor sheeple.
No, not all cults are religious, but most of them have a religious aspect. Even Charles Manson claimed religion. Scientology. No one is saying that all religion is a cult, just your kind.
Perhaps you are still a brain-washed Zombie? Perhaps you are for some reason susceptible to becoming a brain-washed Zombie? Perhaps you have merely traded one variety of Zombiedom for another?
As you may or may not know, the ranks of strident Christian fundamentalists include a disproportionate number of former atheists and hell-raisers whose pendulum swung to the other extreme in one fell swoop when they saw the light. Likewise, the ranks of strident atheists include a disproportionate number of former Christian fundamentalists whose pendulum swung to the other extreme when the slightest crack appeared in their rigid fundamentalism. It's a common phenomenon every Christian and atheist has observed.
In my journey, virtually all of it in Texas, I have passed through rigid fundamentalist organizations and churches and those that were more mainstream if not progressive. I experienced nothing I would describe as even vaguely cult-like by any reasonable understanding of that term. I emerged from the entire experience anything but a "brain-washed Zombie."
I am in a cult? Really? I am affiliated with no denomination or church and haven't been in one in years. Are there one-man cults?
Delivery from bondage to alcohol, drugs, sexual perversion, crime and all varieties of evil is "hilarious"? Most of Christianity merely delivers "false information"? "All lies and a way to control people"? "Poor sheeple"?
Do you realize how ignorant you sound by statements such as these? Almost like ... a brain-washed Zombie.
Ugh. Probably wasn't best to go down the "cult" route here. Some people have come up with criteria to classify cults and I think it's in the best interests of us all to try our best to not go around labeling every religion that is harmful as a cult. Cults are on a special level, like Jehovah's Witnesses - who deeply insulate their followers, discourage any communication with people outside aside from trying to convert, and shun (which includes splitting up families and shunned children ending up homeless).
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Originally Posted by O'Darby
Delivery from bondage to alcohol, drugs, sexual perversion, crime and all varieties of evil is "hilarious"?
"Deliverance" to me is utter nonsense, but maybe we're thinking of different concepts here. Either way, addiction to alcohol and/or drugs and doing crime are harmful things of which the person in question should get help. Not "spiritual" help, real help.
Of course, you also said "sexual perversion". There are real sexual perversions, but I know from your past posts that you are lumping in consensual same-sex relations, which is not a real sexual perversion. And calling it a "variet[y] of evil". SMH. All I can say at this point is that it's just sad seeing this.
I am in a cult? Really? I am affiliated with no denomination or church and haven't been in one in years. Are there one-man cults?
Well there are two general senses of "cult" in circulation that I've noticed. Effectively one is just "a religion that isn't mainstream yet and that I don't like". The other is "a (usually religious) group, often with a highly charismatic leader, that works to isolate you from the general society as a means of control".
I think the latter sense is apropos for the more strident fundamentalists sects, with their oddly specific rulesets and "us vs them" mentality. It is more or less extreme depending on the specific group.
I tend to think that a religion of one is still a religion, so it is theoretically possible to be at least a one-family cult. I knew a guy once who ran a "house church" in a manner he fancied was similar to primitive Christianity. His meetings were open to visitors, and they seemed pretty cult like to me. But since cultishness seems to involve holding other people in thrall, definitionally there are no literal one-person cults.
Coming as I do from a relatively tame (compared to what NorthSouth describes) fundamentalism, I stop short of styling it a "cult", but I have certainly observed individual churches that fit the bill. Coming from one of those, it's possible that NS is over-generalizing a bit; even I'm tempted to see that type of church as sort of the organic endpoint of fundamentalist thought, though. My tribe was spared the extremes because we weren't comfortable with miracles ("Not For Today", we declared) and saw ourselves as sort of sober intellectual fundamentalists (kind of a rare breed). Our approach sprung pretty much from Dallas Theological Cemetery ... er, Seminary, the Schofield Reference Bible, etc. About as nutty as we got was the pre-trib rapture and the AntiChrist and Young Earth Creationism. That was nutty enough for me, lol.
So every single time you have had sex of any kind, it was exclusively done to create a child?
I wasn’t saying that. I grew up with the same perverted mentality as the rest of the country. When you’re young you are very sexually attracted to the opposite sex. At least most of us. You’re not thinking of making babies. It is a natural urge.
I wasn’t saying that. I grew up with the same perverted mentality as the rest of the country. When you’re young you are very sexually attracted to the opposite sex. At least most of us. You’re not thinking of making babies. It is a natural urge.
Why should we listen to a person who admits he had a "perverted mentality"? It would seem to me that is the very type of person we shouldn't be listening to.
Perhaps you are still a brain-washed Zombie? Perhaps you are for some reason susceptible to becoming a brain-washed Zombie? Perhaps you have merely traded one variety of Zombiedom for another?
Nah, I think I'm living in reality, you are not. Pretty harsh to say that to someone who suffered indoctrination. Do you think that what you believe is not zombiefied? I think, and know, that what you believe is the biggest lie ever, that is still being perpetuated by people who have yet to come to their senses. If you were any kind of decent person, you would not have said those things. True Christians don't behave the way you do.
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As you may or may not know, the ranks of strident Christian fundamentalists include a disproportionate number of former atheists and hell-raisers whose pendulum swung to the other extreme in one fell swoop when they saw the light. Likewise, the ranks of strident atheists include a disproportionate number of former Christian fundamentalists whose pendulum swung to the other extreme when the slightest crack appeared in their rigid fundamentalism. It's a common phenomenon every Christian and atheist has observed.
Hahaha that cracked me up. Huh, that's funny, because you are disproportionately wrong about that.. Once you become an atheist, you don't go back to complete nonsense. The whole point is growth, not stunting growth and education, and being guilted into no growth because, it's unnecessary so you won't become of the world, right? That's what your breed are thinking, in this life, I'm going to claim I believe in a god, just in case there is a heaven and hell. Ever heard of Pascal's Wager?
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In my journey, virtually all of it in Texas, I have passed through rigid fundamentalist organizations and churches and those that were more mainstream if not progressive. I experienced nothing I would describe as even vaguely cult-like by any reasonable understanding of that term. I emerged from the entire experience anything but a "brain-washed Zombie."
Sure, because it's just so reasonable, logical and tangible. Your belief is extreme. You may not see it, I hope some day that you do. Being free from religion is the best thing that ever happened to me, barring children. Mmm, Texas. That explains a lot.
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I am in a cult? Really? I am affiliated with no denomination or church and haven't been in one in years. Are there one-man cults?
Yes, you are. Yes, there is. My Dad was a a one-man wrecking ball with his radical, violent ideas about religion. He just couldn't keep his sheeple followers. So, he became the most hated man in the neighborhood for his proselytizing and rage when you disagreed with him. I felt sorry for the JW's that showed up at our door.
So yes, you are a one-man cult. You're just a rogue fundamentalist probably, who starts crap whenever someone disagrees with you. Obviously, that's true from you hate-filled post. Way to go, perfect example of a christian.
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Delivery from bondage to alcohol, drugs, sexual perversion, crime and all varieties of evil is "hilarious"? Most of Christianity merely delivers "false information"? "All lies and a way to control people"? "Poor sheeple"?
LOL that's hilarious too. So, you can't be "delivered" from sin and degradation, unless you become a christian. Hmmm. People who are religious but not christian, might beg to differ. But you're the only one who has it correct, right?
Yeah, I feel sorry for the sheeple, because most of them will remain in this lie for the rest of their lives. That is sad to me. It's bondage of the mind. If you want to live in bondage that's cool, just know that you are an extremist and most christians do not believe like you do.
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Do you realize how ignorant you sound by statements such as these? Almost like ... a brain-washed Zombie.
Oooh, more insults and accusations, nice. You can't think of any better response than to say I'm ignorant? That's pretty lame. Way to go, "christian". People like you are the reason that others are running away from christianity. You are your own demise. I won't have to do a thing except to wish you luck.
Well there are two general senses of "cult" in circulation that I've noticed. Effectively one is just "a religion that isn't mainstream yet and that I don't like". The other is "a (usually religious) group, often with a highly charismatic leader, that works to isolate you from the general society as a means of control".
I think the latter sense is apropos for the more strident fundamentalists sects, with their oddly specific rulesets and "us vs them" mentality. It is more or less extreme depending on the specific group.
I tend to think that a religion of one is still a religion, so it is theoretically possible to be at least a one-family cult. I knew a guy once who ran a "house church" in a manner he fancied was similar to primitive Christianity. His meetings were open to visitors, and they seemed pretty cult like to me. But since cultishness seems to involve holding other people in thrall, definitionally there are no literal one-person cults.
Coming as I do from a relatively tame (compared to what NorthSouth describes) fundamentalism, I stop short of styling it a "cult", but I have certainly observed individual churches that fit the bill. Coming from one of those, it's possible that NS is over-generalizing a bit; even I'm tempted to see that type of church as sort of the organic endpoint of fundamentalist thought, though. My tribe was spared the extremes because we weren't comfortable with miracles ("Not For Today", we declared) and saw ourselves as sort of sober intellectual fundamentalists (kind of a rare breed). Our approach sprung pretty much from Dallas Theological Cemetery ... er, Seminary, the Schofield Reference Bible, etc. About as nutty as we got was the pre-trib rapture and the AntiChrist and Young Earth Creationism. That was nutty enough for me, lol.
But like I said Mordant, I don't feel as though all of them are a cult, what I experienced, looking back, is that all the denominations I was exposed to, which were all Pentecostal or evangelical of some type, were cults. No doubt about it. I mean, who tells their kid that they don't need to go to college because they are going to be whisked away in the Rapture....soon. It's always "soon". I'm living for now.
And "now" tells me that I was indoctrinated and deprived of an education because of a cult. Whether it was one-man or many, a cult mentality is there. I'm fortunate to have been able to drag myself out of it. So I can learn, in this life.
When I disagree with these radicals, they like to call me stupid or ignorant. Just because I don't agree with them and believe what they do. I have a perspective here that no one has except for maybe L8Gr8. If I left anyone out I apologize. It's complete insanity. Maybe my approach is a little different, doesn't mean it's any less true.
Yes, I am adamant and direct. I just got tired of walking on eggshells around these cult people, I don't care what anyone thinks. It took me a long time to get to that point and I have a lot to say and I'm going to say it however I want to, without getting in trouble.
I feel like some of the atheists here believe I'm too stupid to be an atheist, like it's some kind of a club and you're not a real atheist if you're not an intellectual. You don't have to be intelligent, just aware that what I've have been taught is complete bs and then let it all go.
I'm not directing this at you, Mordant. I'm just blowing off steam. I may not be able to debate the semantics and science of it all, but I know enough, read enough, and am learning enough to be formidable. Especially when I quote scripture, I like the way that throws them off. I don't think I'm changing minds, and that's not my goal. I just want people who are questioning to know that some of us understand. And there IS a way out of it.
This statement does provide an opportunity to make a core Christian point that will understandably be irrelevant to non-Christians. Christian theology is that all of creation, including human nature, is fallen. The fact that homosexuality may occur in the animal kingdom or be a genetic predisposition in some people does not, in Christian theology, equate to it being "normal" or a natural part of God's creation. It is a manifestation of fallen creation. We all carry a genetic predisposition to sin in general and to specific sins on an individual basis. Dealing with these predispositions even after we have become Christians remains a lifelong challenge on the road to sanctification.
Anyone is certainly free to reject Christianity - this freedom is a core part of God's plan, too - but it is a coherent theology that holds together philosophically from A to Z.
I agree, it is a a coherent theology that holds together philosophically from A to Z if you accept the story of Adam and Eve being true, and your god being inept, cruel, tyrannical and not all knowing. This is a contradiction to the Christian theology of an all knowing, all powerful and loving god. So perhaps your overall theology is not so coherent after all.
You are also contradicting yourself, if carrying a genetic predisposition to sin is normal, then being homosexual and it's predisposition to sin must then also be normal.
I agree, it is a a coherent theology that holds together philosophically from A to Z if you accept the story of Adam and Eve being true, and your god being inept, cruel, tyrannical and not all knowing. This is a contradiction to the Christian theology of an all knowing, all powerful and loving god. So perhaps your overall theology is not so coherent after all.
You are also contradicting yourself, if carrying a genetic predisposition to sin is normal, then being homosexual and it's predisposition to sin must then also be normal.
Hey Harry, what time is it where you are? I'm an insomniac so it's 4:50 am.
You had me fooled there for a second, I thought you were going over to the dark side. Funny. And true.
Hey Harry, what time is it where you are? I'm an insomniac so it's 4:50 am.
It was 10:37 AM when I posted that. I hope your insomnia is not a problem.
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Originally Posted by Northsouth
You had me fooled there for a second, I thought you were going over to the dark side. Funny. And true.
If I were to go over to the dark side, it would not be Christianity, a house built on sand. Perhaps Daoism.
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That's hilarious. Only kind of delivering that cults are doing is false information. All lies and a way to control people. Poor sheeple.
I don't think I'm changing minds, and that's not my goal. I just want people who are questioning to know that some of us understand. And there IS a way out of it.
