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Same sex “attraction” is not a sin.
The physical “act/sexual intimacy” of homosexuality is a sin in almost all religious faiths.
Just because you feel “attracted” to another female or male does not make you sinful.
That seems like a very recent development. For many years in my teens into my twenties I remember the big argument that Christians of the homophobic variety were making was that homosexuality was altogether a choice. When they finally saw the truth, suddenly now it's "the act is wrong, not the thoughts".
In reality, trying to make this distinction is not going to help their cause. It is not mentally healthy for homosexual individuals to suppress their attractions and try to be with the opposite sex or remain celibate.
This is something that a God should have known before authorizing any of these texts... Just more reason for me to believe that these are the texts of clueless ancient humans and not an all-knowing deity.
That seems like a very recent development. For many years in my teens into my twenties I remember the big argument that Christians of the homophobic variety were making was that homosexuality was altogether a choice. When they finally saw the truth, suddenly now it's "the act is wrong, not the thoughts".
In reality, trying to make this distinction is not going to help their cause. It is not mentally healthy for homosexual individuals to suppress their attractions and try to be with the opposite sex or remain celibate.
This is something that a God should have known before authorizing any of these texts... Just more reason for me to believe that these are the texts of clueless ancient humans and not an all-knowing deity.
Yes, if God actually used those of ancient times to offer an important message to the entire world, He seems to have done so within the limitations of their own culture, superstition and (lack of) knowledge of human sexuality. One simply cannot reasonably apply any of the less than half-dozen ambiguous scriptures in the entire Bible pertaining to same gender sex as being applicable to we of today. And yet . . .
That seems like a very recent development. For many years in my teens into my twenties I remember the big argument that Christians of the homophobic variety were making was that homosexuality was altogether a choice. When they finally saw the truth, suddenly now it's "the act is wrong, not the thoughts".
In reality, trying to make this distinction is not going to help their cause. It is not mentally healthy for homosexual individuals to suppress their attractions and try to be with the opposite sex or remain celibate.
This is something that a God should have known before authorizing any of these texts... Just more reason for me to believe that these are the texts of clueless ancient humans and not an all-knowing deity.
The opposition to homosexuality is actually one of the big factors that made me deconstruct.
My morality, and my reasons for deciding what things are right or wrong has, for as long as I can remember, been independent from the religion I was raised in. When I became confronted with the concept of homosexuality (which had to have been elementary school at latest) and was mocked as so for appearing different from the others, I was confused as to why this is something someone would make fun of someone for. Like, what's wrong with being gay?
There for a while, I had somehow not made the connection between homophobia and Christianity, but guess what? When I did, it caused a big shake in my belief system. I had been raised in a very sheltered, "liberal" version of Christianity. I also was horribly bored at church and didn't hear a lot of what was said at church because I was always (not intentionally) daydreaming and missing a lot of the sermons.
And then... I experienced homosexual attraction for myself. I didn't choose it. I didn't WANT it. I wanted to be "normal", so to speak. But even further, I just couldn't see why this was wrong.
All of this and I ultimately saw homosexuality as something that just plain wasn't immoral. No one is harmed by a consensual same-sex relationship. It's just two people loving each other.
My morality had to make sense. I couldn't just believe something because the Bible said so, and in this case the Bible clashed with my reasoned out morality.
Ultimately it came to this: If the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong, then it can only mean a number of things:
1. The Bible wasn't written from the word of God.
2. God is evil.
3. There is no God.
But for a number of years I avoided the reality and became a self-proclaimed "Progressive Christian" and avoided thinking that the Bible even said that homosexuality itself was bad (I had these ideas of mistranslations or something). I didn't go to church or anything, just remained in my bubble. But at a certain point reality had to catch up. I became consciously aware that the only reason I believed in God was because I was raised to do so. I never felt the presence of any deity. And once I realized this, it didn't take me too long to snap out of it and realize that it is #3 from above. No need for #1 or #2. The existence of a deity just didn't make any sense up against reality.
Of course, the slavery, the contradiction between the ten commandments and the ordering of killing of many kinds of people throughout the Bible, and the flagrant sexism (a huge, huge issue to me) also played into this. Homosexuality was a large part of it for me, though. As I said, I was sheltered from a lot of these horrible things that the Bible said and from how sexist a lot of churches are as I was in such a sheltered liberal church. The homophobia was the very first thing I was exposed to and it made a mark.
I think there are two sides of the coin.
On one hand,
Many, who research religions tend to find what talks to their heart. And we all have our reasons to leave or reject a religion - so you are fully entitled to leave Christianity for whatever reason - and I have no issue with it.
However, there is another side to it as well.
When you accept a religion - then the philosophy is, you give up many of your personal wishes and desires - and you tend to live your life under the boundaries set by your religion. And this is where some Christians get it wrong and become Atheists. The gist of their thoughts is,
"God has to operate according to MY wishes".
And frankly, this is laughable.
God does not operate on anyone's wishes but his own. You and I, are who? Nothing! Why should God has to operate according to your or my wishes when he is the one who created us and created the entire universe?
So, if there is a God who has created us and he has created the entire universe, and one puts his faith into God, then,
It's the believer who should try to operate under God's guidance provided to us. Some things are allowed to believers and some are forbidden. Life completes it's course before we know it, and we stand in front of God to be accounted for, as to how we lived our lives in the light of guidance provided by God, and in the light of boundaries and limits set by God?
Indeed, in this life, we will NEVER know EVERYTHING and we will NEVER know all the reasons and we will NEVER get ALL the answers - but when you have developed the faith in God - then you simply try to follow the guidelines set up by your faith, and hope for the best.
If there is a God then imagine what's your worth in front of him? And then see if you can put a fourth option in the bold part above.
This has come up before, hasn't it. Isn't it odd that so many of us come to the conclusion that you are. Perhaps a "godist", particularly after having read your post #34?
On one hand,
Many, who research religions tend to find what talks to their heart. And we all have our reasons to leave or reject a religion - so you are fully entitled to leave Christianity for whatever reason - and I have no issue with it.
However, there is another side to it as well.
When you accept a religion - then the philosophy is, you give up many of your personal wishes and desires - and you tend to live your life under the boundaries set by your religion. And this is where some Christians get it wrong and become Atheists. The gist of their thoughts is,
"God has to operate according to MY wishes".
And frankly, this is laughable.
God does not operate on anyone's wishes but his own. You and I, are who? Nothing! Why should God has to operate according to your or my wishes when he is the one who created us and created the entire universe?
So, if there is a God who has created us and he has created the entire universe, and one puts his faith into God, then,
It's the believer who should try to operate under God's guidance provided to us. Some things are allowed to believers and some are forbidden. Life completes it's course before we know it, and we stand in front of God to be accounted for, as to how we lived our lives in the light of guidance provided by God, and in the light of boundaries and limits set by God?
Indeed, in this life, we will NEVER know EVERYTHING and we will NEVER know all the reasons and we will NEVER get ALL the answers - but when you have developed the faith in God - then you simply try to follow the guidelines set up by your faith, and hope for the best.
If there is a God then imagine what's your worth in front of him? And then see if you can put a fourth option in the bold part above.
"4 - May be I am wrong."
You seem to jump to the conclusion that we agree that there is a god.
You seem to also jump to the conclusion that a person must accept all tenets of a religion to use that religious as guidance.
From the OP, nng: To me, same sex attraction is not a big deal, to others it is sin.
The 'others' the OP refers to are those who get their idea that homosexuality is a sin from, of course, the Bible. For those who don't know, there are only two references in the Old Testament to what may appear to be a condemnation of homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13) and perhaps two or three ambiguous* texts in the New Testament. And that's all there is from the entire pages of the Bible. This barely represents a blip on the scriptural radar screen. And yet the topic, unbelievably, occupies many, many pages on this and other forums as well as having caused severe conflict and ultimate division in many churches throughout the world.
To the OP ...you are right. Same sex attraction IS no big deal and has become nothing more than a huge beat-up by the Evangelical Church. The authors of the Bible (MERE mortals and NOT God!) would not have known what homosexuality even was had they encountered it. They had no such knowledge of human sexuality. Even today medical science is grappling with answers regarding the 'whys' pertaining to the variables of human sexuality. And yet we're supposed to credit the ancient authors of the Bible with this knowledge.
Just applying logic and common-sense reasoning to an issue - biblical or otherwise - will oftentimes lay it comfortably to rest.
* ambiguous. WE don't know what these texts are referring to but they are certainly NOT referring to 'homosexuality' as we understand the term.
The Bible doesn't use the word "homosexuality." It was a word not invented until the modern era. At most, one could say it talks about male intercourse and even that is a stretch, not oral. It doesn't mention women attracted to women.
From the OP, nng: To me, same sex attraction is not a big deal, to others it is sin.
The 'others' the OP refers to are those who get their idea that homosexuality is a sin from, of course, the Bible. For those who don't know, there are only two references in the Old Testament to what may appear to be a condemnation of homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13) and perhaps two or three ambiguous* texts in the New Testament. And that's all there is from the entire pages of the Bible. This barely represents a blip on the scriptural radar screen. And yet the topic, unbelievably, occupies many, many pages on this and other forums as well as having caused severe conflict and ultimate division in many churches throughout the world.
To the OP ...you are right. Same sex attraction IS no big deal and has become nothing more than a huge beat-up by the Evangelical Church. The authors of the Bible (MERE mortals and NOT God!) would not have known what homosexuality even was had they encountered it. They had no such knowledge of human sexuality. Even today medical science is grappling with answers regarding the 'whys' pertaining to the variables of human sexuality. And yet we're supposed to credit the ancient authors of the Bible with this knowledge.
Just applying logic and common-sense reasoning to an issue - biblical or otherwise - will oftentimes lay it comfortably to rest.
* ambiguous. WE don't know what these texts are referring to but they are certainly NOT referring to 'homosexuality' as we understand the term.
For believers, only ONE shortest sentence in scripture to condemn homosexuality (or any other action) is ENOUGH!
It’s because, for believers, it’s the word of God.
Do 100% of believers follow 100% of their faith and commandments, 100% of the time?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
We all fall short in one way or the other - but in the end, it’s all about how much have you tried?
Plus, to update your basic “scriptural” knowledge, the “others” are not just the Christians, homosexuality is condemned in Quran, Torah, and among a very large population of followers of Hindu faith. Not sure about Buddhism but I think it’s not favorably looked at in majority of African tribes as well.
It’s a socially accepted practice in many first world countries, and you can support, follow and practice it all you want - no issue here - but it remains a sin in almost ALL major religious faiths. Wouldn’t hurt to earn to live with it. It’s very simple.
Last edited by GoCardinals; 08-13-2023 at 05:41 AM..
This has come up before, hasn't it. Isn't it odd that so many of us come to the conclusion that you are. Perhaps a "godist", particularly after having read your post #34?
It was my understanding that GC is Muslim. I could be wrong, but because we don't have many regular posters here who are Muslim, especially since the loss of Woodrow LI, it was something I noted. We do have truth teller, but that poster doesn't really engage in dialogue, just quotes.
In one post he mentions "my church" along with "my mosque". Perhaps he argues with himself internally. JK. I think he is a practicing Muslim, but of course he can speak for himself.
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JK. I think he is a practicing Muslim, but of course he can speak for himself.
