Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't know if I've ever told this story, but perhaps you'll find it interesting. I became close with a Muslim couple (young, mid-20s) from Pakistan. I hired the husband to work at our school in a technology related field. At the time he was engaged to the Pakistani woman. Through work and, later, playing pool together, we became quite close. And when the young man's father died he asked me to be his "American father", stressing that in Pakistan "family is everything" and "I still need a father". Eventually, after they married, they bought quite an expensive townhouse and invited me to live with them as "a family". It worked out surprisingly well, and I was treated as the 'father figure'. There ultimately was a sad ending...but that's not really part of this story.
Of course, I met quite a few of their Muslim friends, mostly Pakistanis. I was treated with extreme respect, as in, "Oh, you're [young Pakistani]' father. One evening to took me to a very large Pakistani party being held at a hotel. Perhaps 150 people...I seemed to be the only non-Muslim there. All very friendly toward me, and it went well (except for me learning that I didn't really like goat). But every young or middle-aged Pakistani man who came to the table to talk directly to me (I guess women were not allowed to talk to a male stranger...and by the way...my "sons" wife was the stereotypical Muslim wife...sad) would end up asking me the same question...more then two dozen of these men: "Don't you think 9/11 was done by the CIA?" Another thing that was interesting was that my 'son' asked me to read the Koran, and I said I would if he would read a book of Buddhist scriptures. I kept my promise (at least halfway through), but quit when he made no effort to keep his side of the deal. He has returned to Pakistan and HATES living in his own country. HATES it.
I think the US-did-9/11 is very prevalent in a lot of Muslim countries, and a lot of people here think that, also. I can't claim I know for certain who did what, but as a long-time employee of the owner of the WTC who knew the building better than the average person, I know that a lot of conspiracy adherents' ideas on why they believe that are, frankly, stupid, and simply show how much they don't know about the WTC. Doesn't mean they aren't correct about who is behind it, just that they clutch on to some really idiotic information to bolster their belief. That's not really a topic for this forum, though.
Interesting story about how you got to be an "adoptive father", however. I too have been to a Pakistani dinner (I didn't mind the goat with rice dish) for the alumni of the engineering school in Karachi, which both of my employers (a husband and wife) got their first engineering degrees from. They were awarding scholarships to students in the Pakistani community.
The husband freely claims that his wife is much smarter than he is--she is more of the geeky engineering design professional while he is the businessman--and she's well-respected in the industry in NYC. She dresses modestly in suits with pants, but does not cover her hair. What I wish people could have seen at that dinner (I was one of five non-Pakistanis there out of at least 100 people) was a woman engineer in a hijab standing up at the podium emphatically declaring that people have to encourage their daughters to study math and science because there are not yet enough young women going into the engineering field.
Then one of the other speakers got up and said that next year, scholarships will be open to all students, not just those within the community, because they are so grateful to be in the United States and to have found success here.
I've also been to the South Asian American Association, a professional engineering organization, dinners with a few hundred mostly-brown people from the Indian subcontinent, the evening always starting with the Pledge of Allegiance, and realizing we could not build NYC without them.
These Hindus and Muslims are thriving in our mostly-Christian society, although I would venture to say that the New York City region is a much easier place to do that than some other parts of this country.
The original Constitution of the USA ratification of nines states says ``Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the YEAR OF OUR LORD One thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the Twelfth in witness whereof We have here unto subscribed our names ``..... See the founders of American Constitution sign it in the Year Of The Lord and their names in honor and nation under The Lord God 1787 years after the birth of Jesus Christ ...... Just like the Union Jack of Great Britain uses their flag with three parts of Saint Andrew, Saint George, and Saint Patrick all saints of Jesus Christ
I'll do you one better. Yes, Great Britain was a Christian nation at that time. And did you know what important thing that happened? The USA declared and won their independence from Great Britain, severing all ties with that Christian nation.
And no, they didn't signed their names in honor and nation under Jesus Christ. And since not everyone in this new secular nation understood Latin, they decided to use the English language and how it's commonly used during that era. So, instead of saying "the Seventeenth Day of September Anno Domini nostri Jesu Christi One thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven," they translated it to say, "the Seventeenth Day of September In the Year Of Our Lord Jesus Christ One thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven."
But to us, we write that date like this: September 17 AD 1978. It's been over 200 years, but just like back in those days, not everyone has common sense. You lacked common sense to see that the significance of that is the identification of the year. Not everything should be taken literally. Moderator cut: Language
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 05-05-2024 at 07:19 PM..
Reason: Skirting the profanity filter and a little too vulgar for this forum anyway.
I think the US-did-9/11 is very prevalent in a lot of Muslim countries, and a lot of people here think that, also. I can't claim I know for certain who did what, but as a long-time employee of the owner of the WTC who knew the building better than the average person, I know that a lot of conspiracy adherents' ideas on why they believe that are, frankly, stupid, and simply show how much they don't know about the WTC. Doesn't mean they aren't correct about who is behind it, just that they clutch on to some really idiotic information to bolster their belief. That's not really a topic for this forum, though.
Interesting story about how you got to be an "adoptive father", however. I too have been to a Pakistani dinner (I didn't mind the goat with rice dish) for the alumni of the engineering school in Karachi, which both of my employers (a husband and wife) got their first engineering degrees from. They were awarding scholarships to students in the Pakistani community.
The husband freely claims that his wife is much smarter than he is--she is more of the geeky engineering design professional while he is the businessman--and she's well-respected in the industry in NYC. She dresses modestly in suits with pants, but does not cover her hair. What I wish people could have seen at that dinner (I was one of five non-Pakistanis there out of at least 100 people) was a woman engineer in a hijab standing up at the podium emphatically declaring that people have to encourage their daughters to study math and science because there are not yet enough young women going into the engineering field.
Then one of the other speakers got up and said that next year, scholarships will be open to all students, not just those within the community, because they are so grateful to be in the United States and to have found success here.
I've also been to the South Asian American Association, a professional engineering organization, dinners with a few hundred mostly-brown people from the Indian subcontinent, the evening always starting with the Pledge of Allegiance, and realizing we could not build NYC without them.
These Hindus and Muslims are thriving in our mostly-Christian society, although I would venture to say that the New York City region is a much easier place to do that than some other parts of this country.
Nice post MQ and thank you for relating your experiences with the mostly-brown people with whom I belong as well. It is not only NYC. Brown women are leading in every field and doing a bang up job while wearing their saris and hijab all over the world. I always get emotional when i see women doing well, be it engineering or sports, but brown and black women have a special place in my heart.
I like Amna Nawaz a lot, the host of PBS news. She is beautiful, very talented, and a highly qualified journalist. One cannot help notice how she manages to dress modestly and at the same time look damn attractive as she delivers the news.
Nice post MQ and thank you for relating your experiences with the mostly-brown people with whom I belong as well. It is not only NYC. Brown women are leading in every field and doing a bang up job while wearing their saris and hijab all over the world. I always get emotional when i see women doing well, be it engineering or sports, but brown and black women have a special place in my heart. I like Amna Nawaz a lot, the host of PBS news. She is beautiful, very talented, and a highly qualified journalist. One cannot help notice how she manages to dress modestly and at the same time look damn attractive as she delivers the news.
bold above, another label used to self-identify.
more labels which according to previous post have no importance and are misleading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
I have never paid any attention to either term. Labels have no importance for me, because often they mislead, and obfuscate rather than clarify.
the selective use of labels and the selective aversion to labels is duly noted.
and it does clarify. it clarifies a double standard.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-05-2024 at 10:10 AM..
bold above, another label used to self-identify.
more labels which according to previous post have no importance and are misleading.
the selective use of labels and the selective aversion to labels is duly noted.
and it does clarify. it clarifies a double standard.
Excellent label watchdog work
Re: 9/11, there's a 0.00% chance that the US had any involvement (aside from undervaluing/not acting on relevant intelligence). Just felt like that needed stating after reading a post above
Nice post MQ and thank you for relating your experiences with the mostly-brown people with whom I belong as well. It is not only NYC. Brown women are leading in every field and doing a bang up job while wearing their saris and hijab all over the world. I always get emotional when i see women doing well, be it engineering or sports, but brown and black women have a special place in my heart.
I like Amna Nawaz a lot, the host of PBS news. She is beautiful, very talented, and a highly qualified journalist. One cannot help notice how she manages to dress modestly and at the same time look damn attractive as she delivers the news.
regarding bold above, the question that arises is why is that?
and to put it in the framework of the thread topic we are in, it is like reading "Christians in America hold a special place in my heart."
NOTE: that is not my personal view at all. It is used to illustrate how the statement in bold above sounds with regards to the topic of this thread. My view is that both those statements reflect the same mindset, and originate from the same place.
i find both statements equally jarring.
and for the same reason: emphasis on seeing (and categorizing) people through the lens of religion. emphasis on seeing (and categorizing) people through the lens of skin color.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-05-2024 at 11:09 AM..
regarding bold above, the question that arises is why is that?
and to put it in the framework of the thread topic we are in, it is like reading "Christians in America hold a special place in my heart."
NOTE: that is not my personal view at all. It is used to illustrate how the statement in bold above sounds with regards to the topic of this thread. My view is that both those statements reflect the same mindset, and originate from the same place.
i find both statements equally jarring.
and for the same reason: emphasis on seeing (and categorizing) people through the lens of religion. emphasis on seeing (and categorizing) people through the lens of skin color.
and from what place might that be? what is the same shared origin of those statements?
well a prejudice. a bias. prejudice is to pre-judge.
and whether it is a prejudice "for" something or "against" something, it is still a prejudice.
"preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience."
"an unfair feeling of like or dislike for a person or group because of race, sex, religion, etc. "
"an irrational attitude of hostility or favor directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics"
"an affective feeling towards a person based on their perceived group membership. The word is often used to refer to a preconceived evaluation or classification of another person based on that person's perceived personal characteristics, such as political affiliation, gender, beliefs, values, social class, age, religion, nationality, culture, complexion, beauty, occupation, education, music tastes or other perceived characteristics."
"unfounded or pigeonholed beliefs and it may apply to any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence."
"resistance to change, and overgeneralization"
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-05-2024 at 11:49 AM..
Nice post MQ and thank you for relating your experiences with the mostly-brown people with whom I belong as well. It is not only NYC. Brown women are leading in every field and doing a bang up job while wearing their saris and hijab all over the world. I always get emotional when i see women doing well, be it engineering or sports, but brown and black women have a special place in my heart.
I like Amna Nawaz a lot, the host of PBS news. She is beautiful, very talented, and a highly qualified journalist. One cannot help notice how she manages to dress modestly and at the same time look damn attractive as she delivers the news.
in a nutshell "i favor black people" "i favor black and brown people"
carries the same identical tone as "i favor white people"
same mindset, same camp
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-05-2024 at 12:38 PM..
That is true. I thought you wanted a discussion. My bad. Sorry.
Getting called out it is one of the best things that can happen during a discussion. It's awesome to be able to understand perspective but that doesn't compare to finding something you missed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
