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Wow, what was their crime? I hope you did?
The OP question is what does forgiveness look like? The given then is it is a subjective experience. We cannot experience what the other feels. But we know and experience freedom, when we decide to forgive, we know that. We give the gift of freedom to ourself.
As for confession, it is a religious procedure, performance of a ritual surrendering to God. If you have faith in that then it is the same thing, essentially you are forgiving yourself through this ritual of confession, getting rid of your guilt. The priest is only the medium, in the name of God he confers forgiveness. This process however has a tinge of fear, of sin and punishment.
I didn't necessarily indicate that they begged me...just that I had watched them beg.
As for me...I will just say that not all things can or should be forgiven.
The wronged person is the only one with agency to deal with grievance, and if they decide forgive, forget, and to move on, more power to them, more happiness.
Precisely what I was saying, so long as they are clear on what forgiveness is and what it isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Feeling safe or unsafe is in the mind, it is not an objective factor. People with mental disturbances can feel unsafe for no reason, and it is real and manifests in their body. Safety is a function of mental health.
Forgiveness relieves one self, it has no effect on the other. It is not a gift to the other but oneself.
Yes it is possible via paranoia or psychosis or other disordered thinking to wrongly feel unsafe. Or to wrongly feel safe, for that matter. What of it? That is a non-sequitur that has nothing to do with my point.
It is also possible via rational assessment to find oneself to BE unsafe.
If someone has expressed an ardent desire to kill me, while brandishing a gun at me, then the realization that I am in danger is not because I have "mental health issues".
If a woman's husband has expressed a desire to kill or assault her, then her realization that she is in danger is not because she has to address her "mental health issues".
Or perhaps you are of the view that if people just think they are safe, they WOULD be safe?
Precisely what I was saying, so long as they are clear on what forgiveness is and what it isn't.
Yes it is possible via paranoia or psychosis or other disordered thinking to wrongly feel unsafe. Or to wrongly feel safe, for that matter. What of it? That is a non-sequitur that has nothing to do with my point.
It is also possible via rational assessment to find oneself to BE unsafe.
If someone has expressed an ardent desire to kill me, while brandishing a gun at me, then the realization that I am in danger is not because I have "mental health issues".
If a woman's husband has expressed a desire to kill or assault her, then her realization that she is in danger is not because she has to address her "mental health issues".
Or perhaps you are of the view that if people just think they are safe, they WOULD be safe?
The situations you are describing, yes of course, the person brandishing a gun or expressing an intent to kill is dangerous and unsafe to be with. In that case we are NOT talking about forgiveness, are we? This is a crime. I am sorry if i have been careless in reading that part of your post.
If this is the case, i agree it is not a question of forgiving but staying the heck away from that person. This is a case mental illness, someone with anger issues, which is only another way of saying not a healthy state of mind.
Basically what i think about forgiveness is internal, not external. And it does not have to end in reconciliation with the person.
The situations you are describing, yes of course, the person brandishing a gun or expressing an intent to kill is dangerous and unsafe to be with. In that case we are NOT talking about forgiveness, are we? This is a crime. I am sorry if i have been careless in reading that part of your post.
If this is the case, i agree it is not a question of forgiving but staying the heck away from that person. This is a case mental illness, someone with anger issues, which is only another way of saying not a healthy state of mind.
Basically what i think about forgiveness is internal, not external. And it does not have to end in reconciliation with the person.
Then I think we are substantially on the same page. Forgiveness and reconciliation can influence each other (forgiveness, for example, making reconciliation at least possible) but they are different things with different considerations.
Then I think we are substantially on the same page. Forgiveness and reconciliation can influence each other (forgiveness, for example, making reconciliation at least possible) but they are different things with different considerations.
Yes. I think internal forgiveness frees the self to move on, without regard to the other person involved, whose behavior we have no control over.
I didn't necessarily indicate that they begged me...just that I had watched them beg.
As for me...I will just say that not all things can or should be forgiven.
Forgiving acts of cruelty and oppression is not easy.
So what would be the result for us, our well being? Does one carry a grudge, a woundedness? Who then is continuing to suffer?
Forgiving acts of cruelty and oppression is not easy.
So what would be the result for us, our well being? Does one carry a grudge, a woundedness? Who then is continuing to suffer?
One can let go without ”forgiving” (which is why I differentiate between the two).
One can let go without ”forgiving” (which is why I differentiate between the two).
That's actually a good point.
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