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Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context:
"He is also reported to have cried out while on the Cross, 'My God my god, why hast thou forsaken me' "
C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)
I don't know about this 'd.sasa'. The "Authorized King James Version" of the bible says, Jesus was hung upon a tree, and everyone who's anyone knows the "King James" is infallible. I even went to the Louvre Museum in Paris and saw several scuptures of Jesus executed on a tree. So Jesus was actually hung upon a tree , not a cross. The Cross is actually and originally a phallic symbol. However, i also don't believe the man Jesus was almighty God, but then most here know that.
Last edited by bluepacific; 08-09-2008 at 03:49 AM..
4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37.
He also said in St. John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.
this is the most interresting point for me
thank you sasa
i hope to know the view of christians about this point
Quote:
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37.
about this verse , it isn't the words of jesus (pbuh) , it's a words of john , or whoever the author of this chapter .
so is it mean that his disciple John and the all follower of jesus themselfs didn't saw God !!!!!!!
I have met many people in Mexico named Jesus; it seems to be a common name. I think in the respect of a religious Jesus there is just not proof he existed. This would make me say the Jesus in religion is a myth, and all documentation to prove his existence is forged or not existing. The documentation in Roman Records is also not there. This is especially damning due to their compulsion to record everything, which would have without doubt included any problems or any executions. This and the stories which copy other primitive religious personages doing the same things seem to indicate the myth was a collection of several ancient god myths.
Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context: 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God. 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God. 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God. God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God. 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God. 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own. Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God. Conclusion The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what basis have you come to believe otherwise?
[b]My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
Well, I have no interest in Islam, however, I will say that you do make some interesting, and valid points. Christians have always struggled with the teaching of the Trinity, and usually wind up resorting to the age-old cover, "we accept it by faith". Personally, I'll be interested to see how traditional Christians respond to your post, because, frankly, I've always had problems with the idea of the Trinity, even though I was raised with this traditional teaching. The very scriptures that you quote really do seem to raise a great many questions.
Jesus is my Saviour,who came to Earth in the form of a man to die on the cross for our sins ,for whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Well, I have no interest in Islam, however, I will say that you do make some interesting, and valid points. Christians have always struggled with the teaching of the Trinity, and usually wind up resorting to the age-old cover, "we accept it by faith". Personally, I'll be interested to see how traditional Christians respond to your post, because, frankly, I've always had problems with the idea of the Trinity, even though I was raised with this traditional teaching. The very scriptures that you quote really do seem to raise a great many questions.
Actually I have no interest in the Muslim faith either , but I did run across an interesting Muslim website that focused on the 1 John 5:7 controversey and it was straight on accurate.
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