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True. Overthinking, yep. But just "thinking"? Unlikely to hurt you too much, unless the complexity of our existence, not yet fully explained, causes you to buy too much OTC Prilosec.
Oh my... how sad and insulting are the posts and proclamations from the believers. I'm pretty sure they are baiting us for the purposes of then proselytizing under the guise of honest debate. Yah think? No-one who can read and type into a computer could be that uncritical in their thinking processes. Could they?
There's truly an obvious disconnect in logic and reality here. The fundamentalist definition of proof is at obvious odds, probably by design, with that which they employ in everyday situations. Or they choose to grasp at their "proofs" absent proof. How sad. Perhaps they are a different species and we shouldn't be trying to interact with them? Chimps versus pigeons?
Come on, people, learn how to quote properly!!! Please adjust your post (meaning delete my sn from your quote) because I didn't say that!! GCS did.
There's an obvious disconnect between man and His Creator. The Creator created logic and reality. The arrogance is astounding.
Right on. I'd see more of a chance of a "higher power" if everything WASN'T different.
I didn't say that...SuSu did.
Edit...See it has attributed your post to me...No wonder you are getting a headache...I am too!
Look at post #87 within the quote. It still says within the quote that I said it. One more time....we must delete certain things in order for it to be correct.
No, I do not believe in a prophet named Muhammad. A man named Muhammad may have existed, but he was no prophet from God. Muhammad is a false prophet and Allah IS NOT God, the one true God who sent His Son Jesus Christ to die a horrible death on the cross for our sins....ALL OF US ARE SINNERS.
Yes, Jesus wiped away the sin debt for all of us, but not all of us are accepting that free gift or Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
Muhammad was blind and illiterate and one man, and he stole enough information from the Holy Bible, God's true Word, to make his lies sound plausible. He has fooled many generations of people right into hell. There is a name for followers of one man and his false teachings.....it's called a CULT.
"I'm right!"
"No I'm right!"
"No me!"
"Me!"
It's pointless to assume you are right when you have no way to find the actual answer. Both of you use the "methods of knowing truth" that you are sure work, and yet you both arrive at completely different, exclusive "truths."
For me to believe, this bickering would have to not be in the world. if God existed and cared what religion we were, we would all be one religion.
"Illogical! Illogical!!" chanted the robot, mindlessly...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
For pete's sake you started this thread and asked the question. Too darn bad if you don't like the answers. Did you expect all of us unbelievers to fall down on our knees and repent after you call us sinners and consign us to hell...We are NOT living in sin anymore than Christians are.
If our answers don't make you feel all warm and fuzzy, perhaps you should preach to the converted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Yes, a question was asked but it was more like this: "What the heck is it going to take for you to believe?" because there is so much evidence FOR God and not against Him.
I know that unbelievers need physical, concrete without a doubt, fly me in the sky evidence, but you also know that it's not going to happen. [At this point in my life, I'll agree with you here. I'm pretty sure it ain't gonna happen. I'm still open though, unlike you] I'm not angry because you don't agree with what I'm saying because if that were the case why would I put myself through the snide remarks that I know I will get? Exasperating? Absolutely. [And yet self-induced. It's your thread. Remember? Is this a sort of on-line self-flagellation contest? If so, how arrogant and delusional. And sad!]
But my intentions are not to convert anyone, believe it or not.
I just said this in another post but I and other Christians just plant the seeds *[Please see my notes to this point below], and I think it's important to have these discussions/arguments whether you agree or not because other people really are seeking and reading what we say.
My teenaged son, having gone through those trying times, was coerced into attending a local youth ministry by some of his sheeple friends. After about 6 mo, he'd gotten downright narrow-minded. But since I asked him to read just a few of the Christian-believer posts, plus this one, he, thank god, has repented and asked me to save him from his sinful ways.
So, yes, these posts truly have value to me and my family. You're so right: a lot of people DO read them, and a lot are finally led to think for themselves. Wrong result for your side, I'm afraid. In my son's case, he's turned from being just another stray bleating lamb turned into a self-sufficient lion!! Thanks!
Does God need me to defend Him? Of course not. But He did tell us to spread the gospel, and that's exactly what I'm doing.
God is also using you in these discussions, whether you believe in Him or not.
Nope; sorry. I looked around in my mind. No one here but me.
* Regarding Christian's intents on independant skeptical thinking: I happened on a thread over on the Christian site a few weeks ago where they were quietly discussing how, exactly, to deal with the dis-believers. I felt like a "fly on the wall" because they certainly weren't talking as though we were supposed to hear them. Their strategy points, paraphrased, were:
1. Start controversial threads.
2. Listen with apparent sympathy and understanding. Look for any opportunities to introduce the Word of the Lord.
3. Understand that atheists are in trouble, morally rudderless and without ethics. And thereby unable to cope, properly, with life's problems. As all-knowing Christians, understand that you have the ultimate answers. Don't give in to their brand of reason. (That would be the logical kind...).
4. Get them into a discussion where the "fundys" can bring out the illogic or contradictions of the atheists' ideas. (Now THAT'S funny, eh? and I think it's called "baiting").
5. Understand and develop a consolidated strategy for dealing with the sinful, disgusting ways of gays and lesbians, and how to help them deal with what Christians assert is an obvious defect, sickness and perversion. NOTE: A lot fewer (%) of loving gay couples split up than do officially married God-protected Christians. Interesting stat! Ditto for their strategies to shut out ANY abortion issues, stem cell research support, the teaching of evolution and on and on (AOAO). We're narrow-minded?
There was a palpable patronizing feeling on that thread. A sort of parent-dealing-with-troubled-child approach. How arrogant yet subtle.
So... I conclude that
1) we're constantly being drawn in to "discussions" in which they then "call us" when we express righteous indignation at their insults and put-downs. Or if we bite on their patronizing "statements" about how we think, what we believe or our influence on others.
2) Absent religious dogma and fundamentalist proselytizing, we atheists would not even be talking here. No fear, no dreaded night-sweats, no wondering "what if I'm wrong?" crap. The utter boredom of having to live an endless life as a smarmy Xtian rewarded with an eternal life in heaven, patting an obviously conflicted lion on the head as he wonders what to do about that delicious-looking lamb under that tree, etc.
Finally, DOTL, your most egregious and persistant insult, and that of your fellow dogmatists, is that absent your brand of Christianity, we just don't know how to behave properly. Unlike you. That we are unable to come up with a truly workable set of near-godly (ohhh... that's gonna prompt a response, eh guys?) ethics. No no! Not so. I can clearly see what thuggery and religion have wrought, and I refuse to behave likewise.
You should be so lucky, woman, to have me step around the corner when the street thugs descend on you. You won't be able to thank your Lord for my timely appearance. Perhaps we can go and have a victory coffee after I bust their silly ethics. I'll also bet that many of those inner city kids, black, white or Hispanic, were raised in a Christian church-going family. Little Rap-Sheet Salvador can probably recite some biblical chapter and verse. Wanna bet? I, however, cannot, but will, I promise, defend you, ethically bereft though I may be.
I'll be in my study. Awaiting proof.
Last edited by rifleman; 11-17-2008 at 01:29 PM..
Reason: typos
Well yes I do have a photo of a beautiful sunset in North Carolina and the video I got of the waterfall and colorful leaves are stunning. God has given me enough sense to keep an umbrella in my car at all times
Ok, so you have a photo of a sunset and a waterfall, so where is your photo of god?
It's like saying I have cookies so that proves elves exist.
Uh, yes, you are. We all are as a result of what happened in the garden of Eden.
It makes absolutely no sense.
We are responsible for our own actions. So if your parents shot a deer, does that make you responsible? I guess going by your religious standards, it does.
All my comments are from your opening thread post. Nowhere else, save for my not deleting the ref. to Haaziq, who was also responding to you.
It is true that quoting a requote can make it look like someone else is saying something. Sorry Haaziq; not my intent. but as for your direct questions, DOTL, yah got me.
To your recent #101 post, 11:23am, 11-17-'08, today. "Come on, people, learn how to quote properly!!! Please adjust your post (meaning delete my sn from your quote) because I didn't say that!! GCS did." [quote, DOTL]
What is it you didn't say here? Just curious, not combative.
Otherwise, unless we're just quibbling in order to confuse or deflect the argument, I think the "jist" of my post is still valid. Don't you?
Sittin' here with nothing else to do but answer you, honestly. Drinkin' good coffee and opening my mind to any fair wind that blows. And being highly entertained to boot! Blah blah blah. I remain YrHmbSrvnt.
Last edited by rifleman; 11-17-2008 at 03:01 PM..
Reason: typos
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Yah think? No-one who can read and type into a computer could be that uncritical in their thinking processes. Could they?
"Illogical! Illogical!!" chanted the robot, mindlessly...
misquoting you? huh?
