LDS oppresses its members (quote, marriage, faith, punishment)
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I understand all that but if you believe the Bible then it says that being gay is wrong. So there is definitely a conflict but it isn't just with the LDS church, it is with most churches.
No, because most churches do NOT excommunicate you for being gay. That's a HUGE difference.
No, because most churches do NOT excommunicate you for being gay. That's a HUGE difference.
As I said, I don't know which churches do and which do not. Can you tell me what different sects do if they know someone is gay in their church? It is an honest question.
As I said, I don't know which churches do and which do not. Can you tell me what different sects do if they know someone is gay in their church? It is an honest question.
No. I am only familiar with a few.
Not all religions are dogmatic, and even the Catholics (who are) seem to be very easy on their clergy compared to the way some of their flock are treated.
I do feel that the more dogmatic religions tend to harbor more hypocrites.
But I don't have a list for that, either.
A gay guy told me that a priest told him being gay is not a sin, but the act was. I find it absurd to tell someone that the only way he can be acceptable to God is to be abstinent.
Ideally, in many churches everyone is supposed to refrain from sex until marriage, but nobody listens to them and they will just lose their income base if they continue to come down heavily on such people.
My husband is a member of a Christian church that does not view gays any differently than non-gays. They, once a year, present the parish with a balance sheet so everyone sees where their contributions went and how much was collected from various activities.
If I could believe in Christ I would join. I respect them. But I would just be a rebel rouser in the group and I don't want to break their spirit.
Not all religions are dogmatic, and even the Catholics (who are) seem to be very easy on their clergy compared to the way some of their flock are treated.
I really don't like calling out other religions so I will leave that alone.
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I do feel that the more dogmatic religions tend to harbor more hypocrites.
But I don't have a list for that, either.
There are hypocrites every where you go, not just "dogmatic religions".
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A gay guy told me that a priest told him being gay is not a sin, but the act was. I find it absurd to tell someone that the only way he can be acceptable to God is to be abstinent.
Ideally, in many churches everyone is supposed to refrain from sex until marriage, but nobody listens to them and they will just lose their income base if they continue to come down heavily on such people.
As I have said before, I don't think it is healthy to force someone to abstain from sex. If a person chooses to do it, then more power to them. Also as I have stated I totally agree with you that just about all churches preach no sex before marriage to everyone, but I do see the catch 22 in homosexuals not being allowed to marry. And even if they were, wouldn't the act still be a sin, according to the Bible? So it is definitely a tough situation for all religions, not just the LDS Church.
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My husband is a member of a Christian church that does not view gays any differently than non-gays. They, once a year, present the parish with a balance sheet so everyone sees where their contributions went and how much was collected from various activities.
Seems like your husband has found a great church. I really like how it is transparent and shows exactly where the funds are going and what they are bringing in.
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If I could believe in Christ I would join. I respect them. But I would just be a rebel rouser in the group and I don't want to break their spirit.
I am sure it sounds funny but I do respect, your respect for the members of that church to not go in there and start questioning all of their beliefs.
^kudos to the pastor of your hubby's church, golden. that is a good thing to do. as far as believing, i wouldn't stress about it. if your heart is good, and you are honorable and virtuous, the rest comes eventually. if Christ is real, as i believe He is, you will find it. He isn't going to condemn someone for denying the twisted representations that this world offers. jsut don't deny it when you get the real deal.
since that is personal and subjective though, i'm gonna shut my mouth while i'm still ahead, and sneak outta here...
So basically they say "oh it's not a sin if you are married" and yet spend millions of dollars on yes-for-prop 8 to keep them from being allowed to be married.
How sad they would oppress people so much as to force them (by threat of excommunication) to remain celibate their entire lives, simply because of sexual orientation. People go crazy when they can't have sex. Pedophile priests can attest to that. I'd say it's the gay mormon's fault for wanting to stay in the church, but some people would lose their families along with the church if they were excommunicated, so they have more to lose than the institution and its oppression. What a terrible choice to make, your family or your freedom to be the way you were born.
Utah has one of the highest depression rates around (article). This is especially prevalent in women, who are taught to be the good little wife and obey your husband, stay at home, raise 5 kids, and support the church with submission. No wonder there is depression, with all the social pressures of the church, forcing women to submit and gays to go against their nature of being gay or just the human need to have sex. They'd get married so that it's not out of wedlock, but that must be why mormons were so interested in prop 8. It helps keep their members down, which in turn supports submission and profit.
(bracing myself for ad hominem attacks)
I'm not mormon...I'm an evangelical who thinks the mormon church is a cult.
But that's beside the point. Why are you whining about the mormon church taking a stand on it? There are millions of other people in this country that feel that we should not change marriage, too.
NB: Since the opening post of this thread was copied from elsewhere on the board, I felt was important to post the reply that was given there.
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Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend
How sad they would oppress people so much as to force them (by threat of excommunication) to remain celibate their entire lives, simply because of sexual orientation. People go crazy when they can't have sex. Pedophile priests can attest to that. I'd say it's the gay mormon's fault for wanting to stay in the church, but some people would lose their families along with the church if they were excommunicated, so they have more to lose than the institution and its oppression. What a terrible choice to make, your family or your freedom to be the way you were born.
There is a lot packed into that paragraph. But yes, it is a difficult situation. We expect and encourage people to live a certain lifestyle, namely that of celibacy outside of marriage. Most do it just fine. Some struggle with it. Not everyone "goes crazy" when they can't have sex. The large number of priests, the vast majority of whom are not pedophiles, attests to that. I am not ashamed to say that we LDS Christians have certain beliefs and standards. Everyone has a choice to join us or to leave us, and we know that that choice isn't equally easy for all people. If people choose to not join us or to leave us, for whatever reason, we are still required to both love and respect them and to treat them as the children of God that they are. It is my firm belief, and the Church strongly teaches, that we are to be loving and accepting of our children who reject the Church or its standards, including those who are involved in gay lifestyles or practices or for any other reason are no longer active in or members of the Church. No one should "loose their family" over these kinds of things. If you know of someone whose family is not accepting of a gay/lesbian lifestyle to the point of it breaking the family apart, then the family is in serious need of some help and is not truly living the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Utah has one of the highest depression rates around (article). This is especially prevalent in women, who are taught to be the good little wife and obey your husband, stay at home, raise 5 kids, and support the church with submission. No wonder there is depression, with all the social pressures of the church, forcing women to submit and gays to go against their nature of being gay or just the human need to have sex.
This makes for a nice theory, but it simply isn't supported by the facts. Other studies have shown that LDS women have equal rates of depression as non-LDS women, and even that LDS women show less depression. The article you point to contains both pro and con statements about the relationship of religion to this.
Check out this page that deals directly with this issue.
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They'd get married so that it's not out of wedlock, but that must be why mormons were so interested in prop 8. It helps keep their members down, which in turn supports submission and profit.
(bracing myself for ad hominem attacks)
So you engage in ad hominem attacks and so expect the same in return? I hope you are wrong. BTW, your snide comments and fanciful explanations about my faith are nothing more than typical anti-Mormon attacks.
And your final jab doesn't even make sense. How could passing Prop 8 "keep their members down"?
Oh, and I think you are mixing up LDS beliefs with those of some other church. LDS almost never talk about submission or submitting in terms of women to men, even though that word is used in the Bible in that context. LDS nearly always use the word "submission" in terms of both men and women submitting themselves to God. You seem to have a minimal grasp of LDS beliefs in this area, relying instead on tiresome stereotypes and filtered anecdotes.
There is a lot packed into that paragraph. But yes, it is a difficult situation. We expect and encourage people to live a certain lifestyle, namely that of celibacy outside of marriage. Most do it just fine. Some struggle with it. Not everyone "goes crazy" when they can't have sex. The large number of priests, the vast majority of whom are not pedophiles, attests to that. I am not ashamed to say that we LDS Christians have certain beliefs and standards. Everyone has a choice to join us or to leave us, and we know that that choice isn't equally easy for all people. If people choose to not join us or to leave us, for whatever reason, we are still required to both love and respect them and to treat them as the children of God that they are. It is my firm belief, and the Church strongly teaches, that we are to be loving and accepting of our children who reject the Church or its standards, including those who are involved in gay lifestyles or practices or for any other reason are no longer active in or members of the Church. No one should "loose their family" over these kinds of things. If you know of someone whose family is not accepting of a gay/lesbian lifestyle to the point of it breaking the family apart, then the family is in serious need of some help and is not truly living the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And yet if a person acts on their homosexuality, you ban them from the temple. If they can't go to the temple, they can't enter the "Celestial Kingdom." And even worse, they can't attend their family members' weddings and funerals.
This causes incredible stress on a person. How can inflicting such stressful situations on a person, due to intolerance, be "loving and accepting"? Unfortunately such a punishment is not limited to homosexual behavior, but can be a consequence of things as ridiculous as drinking tea or coffee, not to mention not paying 10% tithing (including back-payments).
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