A society with no religion? (Catholic, Christianity, God, Christian)

[elwill]

Originally Posted by Lady Ice

Actually I had to sit for a minute and think of a society that doesn't have religion and then of course I thought of China after the revolution.They definately were not any more peaceful. So I guess the countries that have abolished religion are no more peaceful. Maybe it's just human nature to fight over one thing or another. If it's not religion then it will just be something else....but maybe if there was no religion there might be just one less thing to argue over and maybe you wouldn't have the fanatasism (sp?) that religion can inspire.

i agree with you in that
but i wanna to add another example

USA wars against vitnam and iraq for example
i think that majority of USA are christians , they believe that these behaviours oppose the teaching of christ (i agree with them in that )
but it will made me wonder for a minute
what about if thay consider teaching of jesus in thier decisions?
it will be more peacefull , i think !

they choose to seperate the relegion from the state , so that state can make the evil without consideration of relegion

i think that if countries abandon the morals of relegions in thier decesions , there will be more violent in the planet

the violent exist because of people abandon thier relegions not because people obey thier relegion

thanx

[Lady Ice]

Originally Posted by elwill

i agree with you in that
but i wanna to add another example

USA wars against vitnam and iraq for example
i think that majority of USA are christians , they believe that these behaviours oppose the teaching of christ (i agree with them in that )
but it will made me wonder for a minute
what about if thay consider teaching of jesus in thier decisions?
it will be more peacefull , i think !

they choose to seperate the relegion from the state , so that state can make the evil without consideration of relegion

i think that if countries abandon the morals of relegions in thier decesions , there will be more violent in the planet

the violent exist because of people abandon thier relegions not because people obey thier relegion

thanx

I absolutely agree with you that if the state followed the teachings of Jesus or whoever they follow then the world would be a different place. But oftentimes acts of agression have been committed soley in the name of religion. Weren't the attacks of Sept 11 2001 and the bombing of the Bali nightclubs committed in the name of Holy Jihad? And didn't the inquisition happen because it was undertaken by the Church controlled leaders of the day?

[AaronK]

Originally Posted by Lady Ice

I absolutely agree with you that if the state followed the teachings of Jesus or whoever they follow then the world would be a different place. But oftentimes acts of agression have been committed soley in the name of religion. Weren't the attacks of Sept 11 2001 and the bombing of the Bali nightclubs committed in the name of Holy Jihad? And didn't the inquisition happen because it was undertaken by the Church controlled leaders of the day?

A lot of Christian violence in the middle ages was not done solely because of religion, but because of financial reasons revolving around religion. These crusaders and other religious extremists would have invaded these lands anyway, because it was all about the gold. Most of European history after about 500 AD is centered on money.

[Tesaje]

Originally Posted by AaronK

A lot of Christian violence in the middle ages was not done solely because of religion, but because of financial reasons revolving around religion. These crusaders and other religious extremists would have invaded these lands anyway, because it was all about the gold. Most of European history after about 500 AD is centered on money.

You can make a very good case that all wars are really about gold. It is essentially one country performing armed robbery on another. The religious wars add an extra dimension of viciousness to the war because it incites true hatred. It takes that extra measure of irrational belief to get poeple to demonize their opponents.

Peace is a relative thing. You can be a very peaceful and prosperous people and be attacked, thus needing to meet the attack with a like force. The history of religion does not support any claims that it makes people more moral or more peaceful. The history of religion is that it is easily used to incite people to viciousness when it is in direct contradiction to their own best interests. It makes an extremely powerful weapon of war and history shows us that this is true. Christians and Muslims alike claim they have this peace-loving and gentle religion but both have a long history of bloody religious wars that they justify with this supposed peaceful religion. Both have common claims that they are justified in using any means to coerce people to adhere to the strictures of the religion.

Jesus as purported in the Bible is inconsistent in his teachings for violence and thus makes it easy to justify any sort of violence. The Koran also has many justifications for violence and is used in the same way. Religious teachings are the essence of the novel 1984's double speak - say one thing but mean the opposite.

China or the Soviet totalitarian non-god regimes simply forced the populace to adhere to the religion of communism. It had all the hallmarks of fighting heresy and brooked no dissent. No amount of facts were allowed to sway the adherents. No other religions were allowed upon pain of death. (Sound familiar?)

Countries that tend not to be religious can be found in Europe where the populace has voluntarily turned away from religion since the end of WWII. This is by their choice and perhaps it is in direct reaction to the enforced ideologies they suffered from. However, they seem to have trouble with containing sports-related violence.

Buddhism is supposedly a non-religion but thru the centuries, many of its adherents have deified the Buddha so now it is pretty much a religion. Shintoism in Japan is supposedly a non-religion, but it didn't stop the Japanese attacks in WWII or any other part of their history.

It is hard to make the case that without religion we would be more peaceful but maybe it would be a relative thing if people stopped being so easily led. But then that is not going to happen.

[tgnostic]

I'll quote from the Koran: take the Hud:

"If you're Lord so willed. He could have made mankind one people: but they will not cease to dispute."

It seems that this would mean that consequential to all ultimate progress Islam clearly believes in leaving to politics the hope for peace with tranquility. It considers the progress of everything under heaven (I say that the Christian way) as more than politics, more than cooperation of all people to acheiving beauty and good, just the ultimate acceptance of the undeceived character of Life on Earth.

Further quote:

"And you wait! We too shall wait."

"To Allah do belong the unseen secrets of the heaven and the earth, and to Him goes back every affair (for Decision)..."

So it on the one hand seems that politics is deceiving by hoping for common agreements everywhere, but this, being so self-evident to the conclusions through such hope for both obedient and disobedient (to the Messengers), factions of these human activities, it would seem to be progress can't be counted on for Love. But the love may be surprise somewhat in the decay of the Old ways.

[MontanaGuy]

I believe it's only the fringe extremists who attempt to further their goals through means that trample on the rights of others who cause virtually all of the problems in society regarding religion. The overwhelming majority of religious people are not engaged in any activity that is in any way threatening to the rest of the population. When I see the religious members of my own family and consider how they live their lives I see nothing that is harmful to society and they just want to follow their beliefs peacefully. The same could be said of the hundreds of million of muslims around the world. I would guess that the tens of thousands of violent terrorists probably make up a fraction of a percent of the total muslim population and yet many condemn all muslims for the actions of a few.
I agree that if there was no religion in any particular nation that people would still find many reasons to fight and even kill each other for. That seems to be the nature of human beings.

[Terryj]

The problem with religion is that it divides instead of unites, anybody outside of a religious belief system is not seen as an equal, so how can you have a just society based on a religious belief system.

[Pug Life]

Well, if you look at the rates of violent crime compared to the % of secular people, it's actually a pretty direct correlation in Western nations. We're the most violent nation in the western world, and the most religious. The least violent ones are the most secular ones. Not only that, but there would be no religious wars, like the one between Christian and Muslim, or Sunni and Shiite, or Buddhist and Hindu...even the "peaceful" religions wage wars. Without religion, there'd still be wars of greed and bloodlust, but at least there would be no "holy wars".

[Tesaje]

Originally Posted by Terryj

The problem with religion is that it divides instead of unites, anybody outside of a religious belief system is not seen as an equal, so how can you have a just society based on a religious belief system.

Very good point. I think the concept of a "chosen people" is one of the most divisive and has been used as justification for extreme violence since it's inception.

I don't think anyone is saying that all adherents to religion are violent. The OP posed a question about whether the complete absence of it would cause the world to be more peaceful.

[noland123]

Yes society could do without all of the religions,but one can't keep God out of the picture and what His Son Jesus Christ did for us on the cross for those who believe.