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Honestly, I see nothing wrong with telling kids that Santa Clause is real.
I usually tell my son that, "As long as their are parents that love their children, there will always be a Santa Clause."
Its slightly different than religions. Religions teach intolerance, hatred, and death to non-believers. Santa Clause simply teaches you that if you are good, try hard, and listen to your parents, that you are rewarded for those actions. If you are bad, you simply get less, or nothing.
If you are bad in religion, you are tormented forever in a lake of fire by demons.
[quote=Memphis1979;10935907 If you are bad in religion, you are tormented forever in a lake of fire by demons. quote]
Primitive mankind had to endure zero knowledge beyond what he could see and he believed the earth was flat and the universe revolved around it. He had zero knowledge of microbiology and with his one smock of clothing he wandered about the countryside defecating on the ground, wiping on his hands, contaminating every river and stream he came to and then when he began to get sick and die he laid the blame on god and satan.
Paper was invented by the folks in the Orient some 500 years after Hey Zeus bit the dust. When papyrus and quills were the way only those with property, money and power had any say in what was written and what was hidden. The modern church relies on their membership continuing to brainwash their infants and small children so they can continue to be a force. Money talks and BS walks.
Your talking about your deity? Wow, yes, generosity to him, 10% tithing minimum, 1 out of 7 days dedicated to rituals and pagan rights purely to amuse him? And if you don't you shall be punished harshly and forever and forever and forever.
Your talking about your deity? Wow, yes, generosity to him, 10% tithing minimum, 1 out of 7 days dedicated to rituals and pagan rights purely to amuse him? And if you don't you shall be punished harshly and forever and forever and forever.
That ain't generosity.
You're skipping over a good deal to get to that. Like the part where those who feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, show hospitality to strangers, visit the sick, and visit prisoners gain eternal bliss. Or about giving all your possessions, not for building costs, but to help the poor and needy. The people like Francis of Assisi, Karl Barth, Dorothy Day, Katharine Drexel, Cicely Saunders, William Wilberforce, etc.
Last edited by Thomas R.; 10-03-2009 at 11:20 PM..
You're skipping over a good deal to get to that. Like the part where those who feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, show hospitality to strangers, visit the sick, and visit prisoners gain eternal bliss. Or about giving all your possessions, not for building costs, but to help the poor and needy. The people like Francis of Assisi, Karl Barth, Dorothy Day, Katharine Drexel, Cicely Saunders, William Wilberforce, etc.
Gee, I was poor and needy once. I got off my ass, worked hard, and stopped being poor and needy, and your god didn't do any of that for me. Neither did your church members or saints.
Gosh, don't let anyone know that a human being can take responsibility for themselves and their own destiny and not rely on myths or charity. If everyone knew that, they'd do what I did and your churches would crumble.
[quote=Mercury Cougar;1103747 Gosh, don't let anyone know that a human being can take responsibility for themselves and their own destiny [/quote]
The thumpers drop by for a little socializing with their cohorts for an hour and a half a week, donate 10% of their money so that the preacher can be paid and his car expenses taken care of, listen to some gibberish he took 45 minutes to prepare from a couple of bible verses then get to feeling good about themselves and start over. The remaining money goes to build buildings, keep up maintenance needs, buy carpeting, oak or mahagony pews, musical instruments, expensive sound systems, stained glass, crosses and steeples, office furniture, religious retreats, vacation bible school, missionaries dedicated to travel the world and change other cultures, etc.
I send my charitable money to the Salvation Army...at least they feed the hungry.
Gee, I was poor and needy once. I got off my ass, worked hard, and stopped being poor and needy, and your god didn't do any of that for me. Neither did your church members or saints.
Gosh, don't let anyone know that a human being can take responsibility for themselves and their own destiny and not rely on myths or charity. If everyone knew that, they'd do what I did and your churches would crumble.
I'm almost stunned this is your comeback. Enough so I'm going to concede much of what I'm about to say really doesn't involve religion.
Surely you aren't saying that in all cases poor people can just "work hard" and fix it? That there are never factors beyond one's control. That no one ever needs to rely on charity? That helping people is for suckers or something? Surely you don't mean something that callous?
I'm Republican-leaning myself, but fact of the matter is there are times people need help. What if a person's poor and mentally ill? Or poor due to high medical costs from a rare condition. Or even addicted to drugs? What do you say then? What do you say when the person's trapped in a corrupt and impoverished society like Bangladesh or certain Sioux Indian Reservations?
There are weak and vulnerable people who need help. As I said I'm putting the religious thing on hold for a second. I think a thoroughly secular social-worker type would agree with me there are some people who need to rely on charity. Or on the aid of others in some sense. What do you think mental institutions and rehab facilities are? (Most psychiatrists are irreligious so this should show I'm diverting from the religion/irreligion discussion for this) Do you think people can just pull themselves up from schizophrenia by their bootstraps? Or even if it's something else, even if it's just living in Clay County, Kentucky. Do you really think it's that simple?
My Republican sympathies might say the government doesn't need to provide all the aid I mean, but I think someone needs to help someone. Going back to the religious deal a bit even if I was a total atheist I think I could get "an ecology of help", as Nancy Kress once called it, from humanism and empathy alone. (Granted I do think Christianity, properly understood, does a better job of encouraging this desire to help the most vulnerable)
Surely you aren't saying that in all cases poor people can just "work hard" and fix it? )
ALL is an encompassing word. There are always those who either physically, emotionally or mentally are slow and must be taken care of...the good news is that what he said is exactly right. My family began their lives on west Tennessee dirt farms and folks were working there during the depression for $0.75 a day plus their dinner(west TN jargon for lunch. They had supper in the evening.)
I was born 75 years ago and never was financially able to attend college. See...there were no grants or any other kinds of assistance when I was young. Without any formal training beyond high school I worked 41 years for Union Carbide Corp. and the last 25 years of that I was an operations manager in one of the 50 largest computing centers in the country. Now I live in a four bedroom brick rancher with 220 ft. lake frontage. Two of my three children have masters degrees and the other one is a project manager for the DOE earning six figures. Today's youth is spoiled so rotton that they take everything for granted and think the world owes them something. What he said is basically true!
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