Why Do Isolated Locations Have Unique Forms Of Life? (America, churches, bible)

[MontanaGuy]

People who don't believe in evolution must believe that God created plants and animals that would be perfectly adapted to certain environments as opposed to the evolutionary process in which organisms adapt to the environment that they're in. Does anyone who believes in creationism find it peculiar that a great number of isolated locations have a large number of plants and animals that aren't found in any other place in the world? For example on the large island of Madagascar near the coast of Africa about 75% of the animal species that exist there do not exist in any other part of the world. It's not that the environment of Madagascar is so unusual that God would have to create special animals for that island. It's isolation is the reason that the process of evolution was able to go off in another direction. The same thing is true in Australia. Kangaroos are unique to Australia but if kangaroos were transported to a similar environment in any other part of the world they would do just fine.
When Darwin visited the Galapagos Islands he discovered that there was a huge variety of unusual species and that they varied considerably from one island to the next. This isolation was one of the key components that finally led Darwin to realize that plants and animals adapt to their surroundings while competing for resources with other plants and animals. The Origin Of Species was the book he wrote in 1859 which documented how various species come into existence. It's one of the most enlightening books that has ever been written because it presents a much more realistic explanation for the diversity of life on this planet and it explains exactly how it can happen.
If you look at all of this from a creationism perspective why don't we find kangaroos in other parts of the world in which the environment is suitable? Afterall, if God is creating plants and animals he should be able to put them anywhere that they could survive so why didn't he?

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

People who don't believe in evolution must believe that God created plants and animals that would be perfectly adapted to certain environments as opposed to the evolutionary process in which organisms adapt to the environment that they're in. Does anyone who believes in creationism find it peculiar that a great number of isolated locations have a large number of plants and animals that aren't found in any other place in the world? For example on the large island of Madagascar near the coast of Africa about 75% of the animal species that exist there do not exist in any other part of the world. It's not that the environment of Madagascar is so unusual that God would have to create special animals for that island. It's isolation is the reason that the process of evolution was able to go off in another direction. The same thing is true in Australia. Kangaroos are unique to Australia but if kangaroos were transported to a similar environment in any other part of the world they would do just fine.
When Darwin visited the Galapagos Islands he discovered that there was a huge variety of unusual species and that they varied considerably from one island to the next. This isolation was one of the key components that finally led Darwin to realize that plants and animals adapt to their surroundings while competing for resources with other plants and animals. The Origin Of Species was the book he wrote in 1859 which documented how various species come into existence. It's one of the most enlightening books that has ever been written because it presents a much more realistic explanation for the diversity of life on this planet and it explains exactly how it can happen.
If you look at all of this from a creationism perspective why don't we find kangaroos in other parts of the world in which the environment is suitable? Afterall, if God is creating plants and animals he should be able to put them anywhere that they could survive so why didn't he?

Your assumption is wrong - you can believe in the kind of 'evolution ' described and believe in God. Nowhere, in the Bible, does it say that God created things in a fixed state - but only according to each kind. There could well be changed with-in certain genetic boundries that when isolated natural selection gives rise to as you say 'unique forms.'

[kb09]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Your assumption is wrong - you can believe in the kind of 'evolution ' described and believe in God. Nowhere, in the Bible, does it say that God created things in a fixed state - but only according to each kind. There could well be changed with-in certain genetic boundries that when isolated natural selection gives rise to as you say 'unique forms.'

So in short...evolution is true? K thanks.

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

People who don't believe in evolution must believe that God created plants and animals that would be perfectly adapted to certain environments as opposed to the evolutionary process in which organisms adapt to the environment that they're in. Does anyone who believes in creationism find it peculiar that a great number of isolated locations have a large number of plants and animals that aren't found in any other place in the world? For example on the large island of Madagascar near the coast of Africa about 75% of the animal species that exist there do not exist in any other part of the world. It's not that the environment of Madagascar is so unusual that God would have to create special animals for that island. It's isolation is the reason that the process of evolution was able to go off in another direction. The same thing is true in Australia. Kangaroos are unique to Australia but if kangaroos were transported to a similar environment in any other part of the world they would do just fine.
When Darwin visited the Galapagos Islands he discovered that there was a huge variety of unusual species and that they varied considerably from one island to the next. This isolation was one of the key components that finally led Darwin to realize that plants and animals adapt to their surroundings while competing for resources with other plants and animals. The Origin Of Species was the book he wrote in 1859 which documented how various species come into existence. It's one of the most enlightening books that has ever been written because it presents a much more realistic explanation for the diversity of life on this planet and it explains exactly how it can happen.
If you look at all of this from a creationism perspective why don't we find kangaroos in other parts of the world in which the environment is suitable? Afterall, if God is creating plants and animals he should be able to put them anywhere that they could survive so why didn't he?

Originally Posted by kb09

So in short...evolution is true? K thanks.

Yes, when defined as such. Thank you.

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

People who don't believe in evolution must believe that God created plants and animals that would be perfectly adapted to certain environments as opposed to the evolutionary process in which organisms adapt to the environment that they're in. Does anyone who believes in creationism find it peculiar that a great number of isolated locations have a large number of plants and animals that aren't found in any other place in the world? For example on the large island of Madagascar near the coast of Africa about 75% of the animal species that exist there do not exist in any other part of the world. It's not that the environment of Madagascar is so unusual that God would have to create special animals for that island. It's isolation is the reason that the process of evolution was able to go off in another direction. The same thing is true in Australia. Kangaroos are unique to Australia but if kangaroos were transported to a similar environment in any other part of the world they would do just fine.
When Darwin visited the Galapagos Islands he discovered that there was a huge variety of unusual species and that they varied considerably from one island to the next. This isolation was one of the key components that finally led Darwin to realize that plants and animals adapt to their surroundings while competing for resources with other plants and animals. The Origin Of Species was the book he wrote in 1859 which documented how various species come into existence. It's one of the most enlightening books that has ever been written because it presents a much more realistic explanation for the diversity of life on this planet and it explains exactly how it can happen.
If you look at all of this from a creationism perspective why don't we find kangaroos in other parts of the world in which the environment is suitable? Afterall, if God is creating plants and animals he should be able to put them anywhere that they could survive so why didn't he?

Because they never migrated to other areas? You're a bright guy...figured you'd be able to figure that out. Barriers such as oceans tend to prohibit that.

[Lady Ice]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

Because they never migrated to other areas? You're a bright guy...figured you'd be able to figure that out. Barriers such as oceans tend to prohibit that.

LOL...that's the best you can do?

Answer this then, how did the kangaroos get back here after Noah's flood?

[bluepacific]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

People who don't believe in evolution must believe that God created plants and animals that would be perfectly adapted to certain environments as opposed to the evolutionary process in which organisms adapt to the environment that they're in. Does anyone who believes in creationism find it peculiar that a great number of isolated locations have a large number of plants and animals that aren't found in any other place in the world? For example on the large island of Madagascar near the coast of Africa about 75% of the animal species that exist there do not exist in any other part of the world. It's not that the environment of Madagascar is so unusual that God would have to create special animals for that island. It's isolation is the reason that the process of evolution was able to go off in another direction. The same thing is true in Australia. Kangaroos are unique to Australia but if kangaroos were transported to a similar environment in any other part of the world they would do just fine.

Everything has the ability to adapt to various environments over time and develope new and unquie characteristics. i actually think that is a cool thing. I use to research and look for specifc endemic plants, in particular plants that would be outstanding and do well in the Native Plant Landscape use for Nurseries I collected for. Not all areas are necessarily always isolated from others. One plant I was curious about in obtaining was a speciman of sage plant called Santa Rosa Sage (Salvia eremostachya) Here's a photo of the plant at flowering time.
Desert sage This plant is actually common on the desert mountain slopes of Riverside and San Diego Counties, But it's specifically in the Santa Rosa Mountains where the trumpet-like flower whorls which are predominently a cobalt blue, are also interspersed with a singular deep red trumpet coloured flower at various intervals. Last time I was up there I never got my sample. Seed bearing whorls were not yet matured and taking any cuttings were out of the question because it was the wrong time of the year. Well the point is that this unique variety is simply a specific variety of Santa Rosa Sage in the Salvia family. For the public, the best place to see one of these examples is to go to "The Living Desert Museum" in Palm Desert, CA just at the foot of Santa Rosa and El Toro Peaks.

I gave an experience as well of my collection of Southwestern plants on my property not far from the Santa Rosa Mtns in Anza. I spent 24 years collecting specific and unique specimans and probably not necessarily things of interest to the average gardener. Anyway, I had a grey water system I designed for my house which ran from both showers, bathroom sinks, kitchen sink and also washing machine. I always wanted some White Alder Trees (Alnus rhombifolia) on the south side of my house, but never wanted to spend time and money pumping the necessary water out from my well to sustain them. The grey water outlet running into a dry wash on my property offered a solution to that dilemma. I collected two White Alder specimans at an elevation of 6000 feet in upper Fern Valley near Humber Park at a frien's property in the town of Idyllwild, CA. I also later on collected three specimans of White Alder at an Warner Springs Ranch in San Diego Co at an elevation of 3100 feet above sea level. A couple of years later it dawned on me that the budding time for the Warner Springs samples were around the middle of March and the Idyllwild variety was'nt in bloom until early May. What I realized was that the differing locations had radically different climates zones and the Springtime always came earlier to Warner Springs than it did for Upper Fern Valley in Idyllwild, CA. Over who knows how long of a period of time , the Idyllwild variety adapted to a later blooming strategy to survive the longer winters, while the Warner Springs plants could do it earlier. Bottomline for both is that they still remained White Alders.

Living organisms have great variety within their own kinds but never evolve into something else. It's simply an existing Law among all living things and without exceptions. Here's a quote I've always related to since I first read it in 1981.

Keelenberger E. (Dec 1966) page 32 "Scientific American" "The Genetic Control of the Shape of a Virus"

Originally Posted by Scientific American

"Living things are enormously diverse in form, but form is remarkably constant within any given line of decent: Pigs remain Pigs, Oak trees remain Oak trees, generation after generation."

I'll get back to the Darwin / Galapagos assumptions in a moment.

Originally Posted by MontanaMate;)

If you look at all of this from a creationism perspective why don't we find kangaroos in other parts of the world in which the environment is suitable? Afterall, if God is creating plants and animals he should be able to put them anywhere that they could survive so why didn't he?

Actually there are Zillions of interesting questions to ask. Looking at fossil finds throughout the earth, it appears things have moved around, come and gone, from areas that do not presently contain specific plants and animals, but indeed once did. Your second question did'nt make any sense or I don't understand it. I personally would'nt want a managerie-like petting zoo of everything together all in the same place. I actually like all the different unique habitats with specific or specialized kinds or types of plants and animals adapted to various climatic areas.

Mr Darwin's using those Tortoises and Finches as proofs of Evolution were extremely flawed, because he assumed if you wee to believe in creation, that it meant you had to believe that one of every species had to be created separately and in certain localities and that is definitely a lie. Also flawed is this assumption that minor variations mean that something is evolving and that is not true.

None of those ideas are correct and the Bible itself does not say that every species was created separately. Nowhere does it ever say that a certain specific species was created for a specific location. Nowhere does it say that there could be no variety of the same type or kind of living thing. The Bible in simple terms says only that in each case plants, animals, and humans reproduce "according to their kind." The Biblical term "kind" allows for many varieties within it, but cannot mix with other "kinds". As an example, all these discussions on Cichlids, Finches, Tortoises, and Three Spined Sticklebacks have all been created with the capacity for many variations, but always remain finches, cichlids, toroises, and three spined sticklebacks. They DO NOT magically morph into another kind.

As for your first question, not everything can live together in the same location. Mankind has proven through his/her greed and personal ambition that introducing non-native animal/plant species has been detrimental to another environment. Taking your Kangaroo example, look at the introduction of the Camel to the Australian Outback. The largest wild herds in the world exist there and there are destroying the native plant/animal eco-system. Look what happened when some freakin rich English nobleman dude wanted to hunt his favourite prey like Rabbits and Red Foxes on his Plantation-Station spread after he obliterated the indigenous aborigenies from their land. Those policies for the removal of indigenous aborigenies were scientifically based on the theories of evolution. Don't believe me ??? It was called Social Darwinism of the time, and though not practiced or conveniently barely acknowledged today, there is no doubt that the non-native introduction of the White European has gone along way in ruining our planet's various eco-systems. Take a look. Ever hear of or seen the movie "Rabbit Proof Fence" ???
[b]"The Unwanted Third Race"

YouTube - Rabbit Proof Fence - Unwanted Third Race

The really disgusting thing for me is that the Creationist Churches back then supported these racial policies based on and justified using the theory of Evolution and set up several Missions for the breeding out and purging of aborigenal qualities, characteristics and cultural ideals along with their secular governments.

The other thing that is sad is that while the goal is from both sides here at this forum seems to bash and destroy the other side's beliefs, none of you folks ever comes up with a thread on how to save what has been created or evolved. It's not surprising since I really never here any truthfully viable schemes out there in the media either. Creationist insist their god is going to blow the whole thing up and fly them away, something their own Holy Book never says about the earth.

The most damning thing against Christendom is that they were in the best postion to know better and prevent such a genocide in various colonies and refused to do so and instead, with the Clergy taking the lead, went along with and promoted it.

[tgnostic]

Montanaguy, I've got a better one. For the consideration of godless creationism, make that emanationism (everything looked loveless in time after 'god' or whatever put it all together there), the ignorance of time made love happen for the world.

Adam keeps looking for Eve even after the apple isn't finished in his hands.

[baxendale]

MG,
Have you heard of the Pygmy Mammoth? Their fossils were discovered on the California Channel Islands and that's it, no other place in the world.


Channel Islands National Park - The Pygmy Mammoth (U.S. National Park Service)

[MontanaGuy]

The hardcore creationists state that the boundary of a species can't be crossed for some reason that they can't seem to explain. The opinion that Shiloh1 expressed is a much more reasonable one because it at least allows for evolution to occur within a larger grouping of species that are referred to as "each kind". I'd like to hear a more detailed explanation of what a "kind" is because it's not a term used by scientists but I have the impression that it would lump wolves and all dogs into the came catergory for example.

kdbrich wrote:

Because they never migrated to other areas? You're a bright guy...figured you'd be able to figure that out. Barriers such as oceans tend to prohibit that.

But according to creationists God just created every living thing and put them wherever he wanted them. There wouldn't be a need to migrate to spread the population if God had created them in multiple areas with similar environments. The fact that isolated areas have very large numbers of unique animals is very powerful evidence that evolution is taking place. I hadn't heard of the pygmy mammoth that baxendale mentioned but it appears to be just one more example.