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I was raised Catholic, communed and confirmed, educated by the Jesuits in high school and in college, and haven't been to mass in years. I don't have any real grudge with the Catholics, anymore than I do the Protestants, the Muslims or the Jews. If I have an argument at all it's with organized religion. More blood has been shed, more hatred has been spread in the name of one savior over another than can ever be justified. It's separatism at its worst...
But, on the issue of the Catholic Church I would say that it is a business, one of the most successful of all time. I'm no expert on its history but I did see a documentary a few years back that was very enlightening. One of the most revealing things it mentioned was that until about the 16th Century priests were allowed to marry, but that at that time the Church was experiencing financial difficulties, and realized that most of its overhead was in supporting its clergy and their families. And not only that, but when these priests died there estates were willed to their children and descendants. So according to this documentary it was decided they could no longer marry based purely on business considerations...
Some of you may want to argue this point, but I will not, since as I say I am far from very knowledgeable on the subject. I would just ask that if you challenge this you present proof to back it up, or otherwise post with your disclaimer as I have.
Where do you live in America? If you're in a town of any size you have how many Catholic grade schools and high schools? If you're in a city of any size you have a Catholic University and one or more Catholic hospitals. What other religions can you say that about? Love 'em, hate 'em, or get to the point of indifference as i have, but you gotta give it up: The Catholics are shrewd businessmen.
And they are free to do so, Jamie. I would prefer they do a little reading on Church history before they just categorically reject my comment.
God had far less to do with the preservation of Christianity, post-Reformation, than the Catholic Church and their "Church Fathers."
I do agree with that.. I read the entire Church History and I would say that the few Faithful really stand up as Christians...The catholic church though was used as an instrument to further spread Christianity, but Christianity will survive and spread even without the Catholic Church
Appreciate it, big H. Sadly, I can't rep you, I gotta spread some around. The greek orthodox church is older and is the true church. Latin came in from the adoption by the Roman empire and the catholic church is rooted from here.
This is non-sense for you, but I thought you wouldn't mind an FYI item.
Ah yes, it's been said that Eastern Orthodoxy hews closer to Greek philosophy. As in the understanding that "damnation" is the absence of God, whereas Roman Catholicism inherited the rather imperial "crime and punishment" model of sin and salvation. Paraphrased: The Greeks built philosophical systems, the Romans built roads. It's endemic, identifiable, and pretty interesting too, depending on how important Foucault is in your life.
The Catholic Church is God's Church. All the misconceptions and falsehoods spread by protestants are a result of uninformed and ignorant people who simply refuse to take the time to understand why we believe the things we do.
Someone earlier in the thread said that if you believe everything the Catholic Church believes about Marian doctrine, purgatory, etc then you are not really a true Christian. I would argue the opposite. That if you don't believe these things, especially in the Eucharist, then YOU are not living Christianity to it's fullest.
I am not going to get into a debate here, because I've debated plenty of anti-Catholics on these forums before and always win. I simply don't have the time right now. But this is my two cents.
The RCC is NOT the church started by the Apostles. I don't have the reference at hand right now but there are convincing evidence that it was not the original church started by Peter. The Scriptures say the true Church of God is a small flock... always persecuted by the World.
The RCC started when the all the 5 big churches seek counseling from the bishop of Rome; from time the pope was established claiming that it was the church establish by peter... the first was was actually the bishop of Rome, the from time all the churches were invaded by the Muslims and the surviving church was the church in Rome, when the emperor granted the freedom of worship and made christianity as the state religion, it ws thought that it was a victory from a simple point of view but the reality is that instead of the church influencing the world it was the other way around.. the church then started to adopt all the pagan rites and festivals and changing there names in christian manner.. Satan has really a lot of ways.. If He cant destroy the church through persecution then He destroy the church from within.. but faithful christian will remain shinning
The RCC is NOT the church started by the Apostles. I don't have the reference at hand right now but there are convincing evidence that it was not the original church started by Peter. The Scriptures say the true Church of God is a small flock... always persecuted by the World.
Perfect.
The church founded by the apostolic fathers metamorphosed into three tangible forms - the RCC, the greek orthodox church and the gnostic sects.
The rest that we have today are tributaries.
What takes the greek orthodox church much closer towards the original christianity is that before Rome embraced Christ, the early fathers referred to hebrew and "greek" texts. And it's a well known fact that Greek was more prevalent in the empire as a medium of instruction than imperial Latin. Septuagint was the source for the Latin Vulgate. This itself is proof that Greek was the precursor.
A very religious study into the early Bishops and the first Popes centering around Jerusalem, Ephesus, Antioch, Anatolia, Asia Minor, Egypt and around will show the prevalence of Greek and non-latin ideologies.
Having said that, Christianity will not be where it is today without the Roman Catholic church. Those who argue against it have little knowledge of history.
The church founded by the apostolic fathers metamorphosed into three tangible forms - the RCC, the greek orthodox church and the gnostic sects.
The rest that we have today are tributaries.
What takes the greek orthodox church much closer towards the original christianity is that before Rome embraced Christ, the early fathers referred to hebrew and "greek" texts. And it's a well known fact that Greek was more prevalent in the empire as a medium of instruction than imperial Latin. Septuagint was the source for the Latin Vulgate. This itself is proof that Greek was the precursor.
A very religious study into the early Bishops and the first Popes centering around Jerusalem, Ephesus, Antioch, Anatolia, Asia Minor, Egypt and around will show the prevalence of Greek and non-latin ideologies.
Having said that, Christianity will not be where it is today without the Roman Catholic church. Those who argue against it have little knowledge of history.
... just as "little" as the hospitality this vast inner sanctum has been able to provide for "normal", everyday living!!
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