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If their was a little pink invisible bunny next to me and i demanded that you believe in him. Would you?
Would you ask for evidence, or would you automatically assume im telling the truth.
My biggest argument is actually a very simple one. If their is no evidence that their is a god from any religion, why believe in one?
But lets not be gullible and say that their is a God cause the Bible says so!
If their was a little pink invisible bunny next to me and i demanded that you believe in him. Would you?
Would you ask for evidence, or would you automatically assume im telling the truth.
My biggest argument is actually a very simple one. If their is no evidence that their is a god from any religion, why believe in one?
But lets not be gullible and say that their is a God cause the Bible says so!
Umm, but that is exactly why Spiderman is real, because it says so in the comic. The Ninja Turtles are real too, because I saw some children's books that tell me they are real.
Don't bother trying to argue that there is no evidence, because if you open up your heart, they will show themselves to you. That's all the evidence I need. I actually just talked to Leonardo and Michelangelo in my heart. How can you refute that?!
Umm, but that is exactly why Spiderman is real, because it says so in the comic. The Ninja Turtles are real too, because I saw some children's books that tell me they are real.
Don't bother trying to argue that there is no evidence, because if you open up your heart, they will show themselves to you. That's all the evidence I need. I actually just talked to Leonardo and Michelangelo in my heart. How can you refute that?!
i don't. even if you should have just tickled my fancy!
When I consider my point of view as an atheist and what has finally led me to hold the position that God (I'm referring to the Christian faith) does not exist and that I live in a universe in which there are no supernatural beings I see a couple of things that seem to stand out.
The most obvious problem I can see with the Christian faith is that it's been two thousand years since Jesus was supposed to have been resurrected and he was supposed to have come back to earth but he never did. After such a huge expanse of time I see that as a reason to believe he's never going to.
The creation stories of Genesis with God creating the universe in six days, the obvious mythology of the story of Adam and Eve, the impossible saga of Noah's ark and the countless contradictory passages in the Bible combined with the manic depressive behavior attributed to God appear to me to be overwhelming evidence that the Bible is not based on reality.
No one has ever presented any credible evidence of a miracle, the existence of the soul, life after death, and the list goes on. All of these factors have persuaded me to be an atheist.
I'm interested in hearing what other atheists as well as Christians feel are the most powerful influences that have shaped their belief or lack of belief. I have no doubt of the sincerity of Christians and I know that most of them must have some personal experiences that have led them to hold a point of view that is completely different than mine. So without insulting each other and in the spirit of friendly and constructive debate, what has shaped your beliefs?
I guess my question would be why would someone have to argue for what they believe?
I beleive in pink bunnies!!!! I have the "PINK PINK Bunny Shrine" in my yard. Every day I offer homage. http://b6.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01193/64/16/1193976146_s.jpg (broken link)
The "Pink Bunny" advises all to: "Gralehlllsaa, arrgh." Any translators out there?
I guess my question would be why would someone have to argue for what they believe?
Reading Montana's post . . . it seems he chose an unfortunate word (argument) for the topic. He seems more interested in the most compelling REASONS for your belief or lack . . . that's all (explanation rather than argumentation).
If their was a little pink invisible bunny next to me and i demanded that you believe in him. Would you?
Would you ask for evidence, or would you automatically assume im telling the truth.
My biggest argument is actually a very simple one. If their is no evidence that their is a god from any religion, why believe in one?
But lets not be gullible and say that their is a God cause the Bible says so!
In everyone's life there comes a moment when they are exposed to what I call "the truth" its sort of like walking into a room and seeing dirt in the corner. You can close the door and ignore it, you can walk in and clean it up to restore order, or you can stay and live with it. It is all up to you. It has nothing to do with anyone else. When will this moment come? Who knows. I think I can guarantee that you will recognize it when you come to it. Then what will you do? You will become hungry for knowledge. You may go the way of your parents and attend church, you may study, you may travel to other parts of the world to understand their point of view. What most people identify as God isn't necessarily a guy in a nightgown floating around. It may be inside you , a part of you. You may want to read a book called "The God part of the Brain". The basic premise is that we are genetically programmed as humans to desire a higher power. Does that tie in with what I will say next.
There is one thing you have to acknowledge. Man, in his current state is the only creature on earth that does not belong here. Every other creature on this earth has adapted to the environment. Man has adapted the environment to suit him. What about cavemen? They are probably part of evolution, the beginnings of what we could have become. No, we are from somewhere else. So was it God or a humanoid race from another galaxy. Was Jesus (who has been proven to have actually existed as a person) conceived of the immaculate conception or implanted in the surrogate mother as a clone. I don't know and frankley, I have no problem with either explaination.
All I know is that having a belief in a higher power helps me have strength when I truly believe I have none. Surely that is worth something.
Don't be afraid to question. If something is the truth, it will stand on its own. I agree with you that organized religion is basically in the business of making money and not educating hungry minds.
When I consider my point of view as an atheist and what has finally led me to hold the position that God (I'm referring to the Christian faith) does not exist and that I live in a universe in which there are no supernatural beings I see a couple of things that seem to stand out.
The most obvious problem I can see with the Christian faith is that it's been two thousand years since Jesus was supposed to have been resurrected and he was supposed to have come back to earth but he never did. After such a huge expanse of time I see that as a reason to believe he's never going to.
The creation stories of Genesis with God creating the universe in six days, the obvious mythology of the story of Adam and Eve, the impossible saga of Noah's ark and the countless contradictory passages in the Bible combined with the manic depressive behavior attributed to God appear to me to be overwhelming evidence that the Bible is not based on reality.
No one has ever presented any credible evidence of a miracle, the existence of the soul, life after death, and the list goes on. All of these factors have persuaded me to be an atheist.
I'm interested in hearing what other atheists as well as Christians feel are the most powerful influences that have shaped their belief or lack of belief. I have no doubt of the sincerity of Christians and I know that most of them must have some personal experiences that have led them to hold a point of view that is completely different than mine. So without insulting each other and in the spirit of friendly and constructive debate, what has shaped your beliefs?
Other than a handful of experiences that are unproveable, and beyond description........
1-the seasons
2-cow dung
3-an increasing knowledge of science
4-the smell of a rose
5-my wife
Umm, but that is exactly why Spiderman is real, because it says so in the comic. The Ninja Turtles are real too, because I saw some children's books that tell me they are real.
Don't bother trying to argue that there is no evidence, because if you open up your heart, they will show themselves to you. That's all the evidence I need. I actually just talked to Leonardo and Michelangelo in my heart. How can you refute that?!
i dont think you understand what i was trying to say. If theirs no evidence for something beside from what someone is telling you, why should you just automatically assume its true? I mean at first you might believe it, but then you realize that their is no evidence for any god from any religion to suggest that hes real. The only evidence you have deem this God to be true is a feeling, but millions of people get this feeling from all different religions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukiko11
In everyone's life there comes a moment when they are exposed to what I call "the truth" its sort of like walking into a room and seeing dirt in the corner. You can close the door and ignore it, you can walk in and clean it up to restore order, or you can stay and live with it. It is all up to you. It has nothing to do with anyone else. When will this moment come? Who knows. I think I can guarantee that you will recognize it when you come to it. Then what will you do? You will become hungry for knowledge. You may go the way of your parents and attend church, you may study, you may travel to other parts of the world to understand their point of view. What most people identify as God isn't necessarily a guy in a nightgown floating around. It may be inside you , a part of you. You may want to read a book called "The God part of the Brain". The basic premise is that we are genetically programmed as humans to desire a higher power. Does that tie in with what I will say next.
There is one thing you have to acknowledge. Man, in his current state is the only creature on earth that does not belong here. Every other creature on this earth has adapted to the environment. Man has adapted the environment to suit him. What about cavemen? They are probably part of evolution, the beginnings of what we could have become. No, we are from somewhere else. So was it God or a humanoid race from another galaxy. Was Jesus (who has been proven to have actually existed as a person) conceived of the immaculate conception or implanted in the surrogate mother as a clone. I don't know and frankley, I have no problem with either explaination.
All I know is that having a belief in a higher power helps me have strength when I truly believe I have none. Surely that is worth something.
Don't be afraid to question. If something is the truth, it will stand on its own. I agree with you that organized religion is basically in the business of making money and not educating hungry minds.
We are smarter then we were before, smarter then those cave-men obviously. The human brain allows us to do amazing things. We can build amazing things like skyscrapers, airplanes, and even huge cargo ships now-a-days! Do you really think God holds the key to the "conscious" part of our brain. Everybody is different, everyone animal is different, every plant is different, some will do it, some wont do it. I dont know how you factor God into that
OP -interesting topic.
For me, the so-called learned people of faith could not answer simple answers such as why is there so much misery in the world. They usually came across to me as people who did not have answers but then fell back on reciting literature. I am analytical by nature and the because-my-holy-book-says-so approach carries little weight. Many discussions ultimately boiled down to my first having blind unquestioned faith - something I could not swallow. Think about it - if there was a god, he could not even get all of mankind to follow 1 religion - forget having "the" holy book or claiming to follow "the" god. Look around - most follow and defend a religion because they were born into it. Millions have been killed in the name of religion and god is powerless? Travel to the third world and see how kind and loving this god of ours is (sarcasm). Plus so much of "god's magic" is explained by science - and this domain is growing rapidly. Anyway, ultimately I decided I would be lying to myself if I said I believed in a god or a religion. I have never read one book about athesim and do not feel the need to either - religion and lack thereof just isn't that big a deal to me. I have a live and let live approach excepting for naggers which are thankfully a very small (but unfortunately a vocal) part of the population.
Last edited by calmdude; 05-03-2009 at 04:38 PM..
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