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Christians - bash gays for being gay, a natural and inherent part of them.
Gays - Bash Christians for indeed being bigots.
No comparison, anti-gay Christians are in fact bigots by every definition of the word.
Remember, Homosexuality is not a choice, Religion is.
FYI: Christians believe homosexuality IS a choice. Hence, one cannot be "born gay".
And, for us, Christians are what we were destined to be, so our spirituality IS NOT a choice.
Finally, it's not about religion; it's about relationship. Religion is a category.
FYI: Christians believe homosexuality IS a choice. Hence, one cannot be "born gay".
And, for us, Christians are what we were destined to be, so our spirituality IS NOT a choice.
Finally, it's not about religion; it's about relationship. Religion is a category.
Well they can BELIEVE all they want, not true and never will be. Did you CHOOSE to be a heterosexual? Do you CHOOSE to stay away from the same sex? It is not a choice, it is who they are and have been since birth. Do you think a 6 year old CHOOSES to like the same sex? Because many at even younger age, have those feelings.
FYI: Christians believe homosexuality IS a choice. Hence, one cannot be "born gay".
And, for us, Christians are what we were destined to be, so our spirituality IS NOT a choice.
Finally, it's not about religion; it's about relationship. Religion is a category.
Christians also believe that your god created everything. Whatsyer point?
Once again, science comes to the rescue.
Every single legitimate mental health professional, and professionals in all related fields, including the peer review group American Psychological Associate, do not view homsoexuality as any more of a choice that heterosexuality.
And you can say what you wish, religion, including Christianity, is STILL a choice. Homosexuality is not.
@Nea1 & Axismundi:Yes, I CHOOSE to be heterosexual ; and, yes, I CHOOSE to stay away from the same sex. I could decide right here, right now I want to become a lesbian & date women, and do so. As far as children having homosexual feelings is concerned, that's debatable and questionable, since this eludes to the argument people can be born gay, which the Bible doesn't support and Christians don't believe.Finally, you're right: Christians believe God created everything, even science. I can respect, acknowledge and appreciate science for all its contributions. However, when science contradicts the Word of God, scientific findings and arguments must be disregarded.
Deepcynic: BTW: Christians don't hate; we love, since God is love. Further, God loves the sinner, but He hates the sin. We have every right to love, discuss God and be passionate about our beliefs, just as homosexuals have every right to advocate for their sexuality. Honestly, if you go through these threads, you will see/read it's the homosexual people that are spewing venom and using hateful words/language; not the Christians. It's all about being comfortable in one's skin. If you're comfortable in your skin and secure in who you are, you don't have to resort to name calling and being nasty. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so I can discuss the Word with holy boldness w/o being belligerent.
News Flash, you can not argue with christians nor should you try. "True" christians do not parade around bashing gay people or go out of their way to organize rallys telling people they are doomed. If they do, Well then that is between them and God. Their is nothing wrong with giving out literature so that the person can read what God has to say about homosexuallity. That is like most of the white people that live in rural areas who say they have strong christian values but could not vote for the president because he is black. Same goes for the KKK. They call themselves christians but would not mind hanging a black person or anyone who is not white in a minute. Something is wrong with that. Bottom line if you are not religous or believe in God trying to debate with some one of faith is pointless. Think about it,if I believe that their is eternal life based on the word of God what can a non believer actually tell me to have me think other wise. Nothing. Can you promise me eternal life?
News Flash, you can not argue with christians nor should you try. "True" christians do not parade around bashing gay people or go out of their way to organize rallys telling people they are doomed. If they do, Well then that is between them and God. Their is nothing wrong with giving out literature so that the person can read what God has to say about homosexuallity. That is like most of the white people that live in rural areas who say they have strong christian values but could not vote for the president because he is black. Same goes for the KKK. They call themselves christians but would not mind hanging a black person or anyone who is not white in a minute. Something is wrong with that. Bottom line if you are not religous or believe in God trying to debate with some one of faith is pointless. Think about it,if I believe that their is eternal life based on the word of God what can a non believer actually tell me to have me think other wise. Nothing. Can you promise me eternal life?
Boy you have it pegged....One cannot win a debate with a person who disregards reality in favour of a bigoted myth.
Deepcynic: BTW: Christians don't hate; we love, since God is love. Further, God loves the sinner, but He hates the sin. We have every right to love, discuss God and be passionate about our beliefs, just as homosexuals have every right to advocate for their sexuality. Honestly, if you go through these threads, you will see/read it's the homosexual people that are spewing venom and using hateful words/language; not the Christians. It's all about being comfortable in one's skin. If you're comfortable in your skin and secure in who you are, you don't have to resort to name calling and being nasty. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so I can discuss the Word with holy boldness w/o being belligerent.
Real christians may not hate, but a whole bunch of people calling themselves christians do hate. A whole bunch of them contributed to a hateful campaign to pass Prop 8 in California. A whole bunch of them wanted to kill as many Iraqis as possible. A whole bunch of them did the same during the crusades. There seem to be a whole lot more 'hating christians' than real christians.
Even a gay person can live in God. Did not God create Adam from the dust of the Earth? Therefore, man is bound by the laws of nature even when he has the Laws of God in him.
I understand why so many think that being gay is a sin, because of what St. Paul said. However, the commandments of God that were handed down to Moses has nothing in them relating to homosexuality. In addition, Christ said that the two greatest commandments are to Love God with thy whole self and the second is just like it. Christ never mentioned anything about homosexuality. Why? Even though St. Paul did. That is because the Bible is a test for mankind. Just as Christ was persecuted so are black people and homosexuals and any other's who have been persecuted like we Christians are to this day. To persecute is to sin.
Remember, God made Adam from the dust of the Earth so mankind is bound by the laws of nature even when you have God's laws in you. The reason for this is so that mankind would not destroy the gift that God gave him, the Earth. Now to be sure there are people who lust after the body which is a sin. And as I said before; I have nothing against those who are of the same, but to seek marriage is not of God. The reason for this is that marriage between a man and a woman gives life. Therefore, Marriage is a sacrament. Unions between two of the same is allowed. I know there are many of you who do not agree with me about marriage, but try to understand that it was God's will that this be done. You carried a cross for Christ and by doing so you allow Christ to open the minds of man.
My hope is that you will become a religious person in Christ.
But what DID Paul actually write???.
Paul didn't use any of the Greek words that were in common use for homosexuals in 1 Cor 6:9 There were quite a few words he could have used, if he actually MEANT to refer to homosexuals. He used the words "malakoi" and "asrsenokoitai". Neither of which were used in his time to mean "homosexuals". None of the early church fathers (some of whom were very anti-homosexual) used either of those words either. Nowhere in the secular writings of the time were those words used to refer to homosexuals.
In fact, as I have previously mentioned, 1 Cor 6 was used for centuries to condemn masturbators not homosexuals. Scholars argue about what Paul meant, but the most likely interpretation, given the context and the fact that he didn't use any Greek words that meant homosexual, is that he was referring to male prostitutes, or male temple prostitutes.
This interpretation of "male temple prostitute" or "male prostitute" also fits well with Paul's other use of the word "arsenokoitai" in 1 Tim 10 which is in a group of 3 expressions which involve "selling" and translate as, male prostitutes, those who use them, and those who sell them. (aka slave traders). There is NO linguistic or cultural support for translating these two verses to include "homosexuals". The first English version to use "homosexuals" in these two verses, wasn't until 1948 in the Revised Standard version. Then it obviously became the "in thing" to condemn homosexuals and other translators followed suit.
"Male temple prostitution" also fits in with the mention of same sex activity in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 which referred to men having sex with male temple prostitutes when worshipping the local Canaanite fertility gods.
Leviticus 18:22 needs to be read in context...it comes right after a command not to sacrifice children to the god Molech and right before idolatrous worship using animals. It's about an idolatrous practice.
This is also supported by the fact that ALL the commands in Leviticus 20 that have the death penalty, are repeated almost word for word in Deuteronomy. EXCEPT for the verse about "mediums" (20:27) AND the one about a male sleeping with another male as a woman (20:13).
The ONLY repeated verse that matches Lev 20:13 is Deuteronomy 23:17, which refers to "qadesh" which means "male shrine prostitute". This USED to be incorrectly translated as "sodomite" in the KJV. It has since been corrected in most modern English versions. If you don't believe me...look it up. It's all there if you bother to take the time to research it yourself instead just believing what has become church "tradition" and dogma...especially in more recent years.
As for the only other mention of any same sex activity by Paul (1 Romans 26:27)... read the whole chapter in context. Paul is referring to a specific problem in Rome, where converted Christians had returned to the worship of pagan gods. This type of worship involved ritual orgies in pagan temples where everyone would have wild sex with everyone else, including those of the same sex...in worship of the fertility gods. The people Paul was referring to had to be normally "heterosexual" for the verse to even make sense as they "changed" what was natural for them.
That's ALL the mentions of any type of same-sex activity in the NT. None of which really has anything to do with homosexuality in general or would refer to homosexual couples in a committed loving relationship.
If people want to go find some male prostitutes, or prostitutes who worship either Roman or Canaanite fertility Gods, to bash...then fine...there's support in scripture for that.
The whole anti-gay stance taken by many churches is just Church dogma. People believe what they are told and believe what some modern English translations commmission by conservative churches state. If those Christians who keep saying "love the sinner, hate the sin" REALLY cared..they would bother to take the time to research this themselves instead of blindly believing what they are told or what they read in a few modern conservative English versions of the Bible.
Last edited by Ceist; 08-10-2009 at 04:06 AM..
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