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My guess is that most faithful Christians who obey the law of tithing do not feel that they are being taken advantage of. Temporal organizations of all kinds need temporal assets to build and maintain essential physical structures, operate programs vital to their mission etc.
God could show His church's leaders where all the gold in the world is and how to get it if He wanted to. Tithing is a law designed for the testing and the blessing of man. But it's only one of many laws; paying one's tithes is not necessarily going to get one into heaven.
You forgot giant shopping centers, media outlets and controversial political campaigns.
To be fair, the LDS church does a lot of humanitarian donations and work for the needy, maybe more than any other church. But tithing isn't purely collected for noble deeds. It is also invested and gambled with in purely commercial enterprises. But, at least the church leaders themselves don't seem to become millionaires on contributions like some of the televangelests.
I would be much happier with paying tithes if I took 10% of my earnings and burned it on an altar for god. Then no one could abuse my sacrifice.
My grandma was born and raised in Salt Lake as a Mormon, but left the faith when she left the state. I also know from the stories she told, and my own reading and research, that many LDS in position of power secretly don't believe any of it but still consider it a good way to raise a family.
That is a well written sermon and would fit just fine in a teaching handbook, but it still begs the question why? Why would god make people jump through hoops for them to progress and why does someone need to be physically murdered to pay for an ethereal and culturally subjective concept like sin? And if it is so important is it really fair to communicate the message through human mediators which can be easily distrusted and discounted by otherwise rational intelligent people? The whole thing reeks of men seeking to control men. Again, this is not unlike any other religion in my opinion.
One more question. Does the LDS church separate the religious institution from spirituality or do they belive they are one and the same? In other words, is the church the source of spirituality or a simply a tool to help get in touch with spirituality? I ask because from observation, mormonism seems to be more of a way of life than just a standard church.
Whatever God commands His children to do or not to do is the standard of righteousness. When we disobey, we sin.
It is my personal belief that even God is bound to certain timeless universal principles, including mercy and justice. When we sin, justice demands her due. Since we all sin, the Atonement was necessary or we could never again dwell in the presence of God and would be subject to Satan. Where we fall short, Jesus Christ our Redeemer can by his mercy towards us make up for our shortcomings and balance the scales.
If you consider life, the universe, and everything to be just a family affair, this world and all the lights in the sky etc. having been created so God can test and try His children, then you can more easily understand what you think of as meaningless jumping through hoops. Parents require things of their children, obedience etc. so the children can grow up and become responsible adults. In the same manner, our Heavenly Parent requires obedience of us so we can in effect 'grow up' and become more like Him. Each of His commandments has a spiritual purpose, each is designed to try and test and move us along towards being more like Him if we freely choose righteousness/obedience.
Prayer is us communicating to God. Revelation is Him communicating via the Holy Spirit to us. Personal revelation for ourselves and our families is common for those who humbly and sincerely ask of God. But He has always communicated through prophets to teach His children on earth as a whole, His church/covenant people in particular.
"Mormonism" can be a way of life for those who know it to be true and who strive daily to keep God's commandments and their covenants with Him. The same can be said of members of other denominations who accept the teachings of Jesus Christ, particularly the Beatitudes, and who strive daily to keep God's commandments.
Church programs are just tools to help members get closer to God, thus becoming more spiritual. Priesthood ordinances are vital stepping stones along the way.
I hope this makes some sense and is helpful. Maybe other Latter-day Saints on this board will comment on your intelligent posts as well, I surely don't know it all and always speak only for myself...
He was kind of late comming. Humans have been around in our anatomically modern form for 150,000 to 450,000 years, and so has religion, apparently. It is strange the one true way would only appear in the last 2% of the timeline of human existence. I don't understand the rest of your question, however.
Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament. The Book of Mormon contains an account of people who were at the Tower of Babel when languages were confounded. Scriptures record how the world was created, animals coming before man, and record God being with Adam and Eve, this world's first human parents, in the Garden of Eden where He gave them commandments.
You can't go further back than that! But of course if you accept carbon dating etc. as inviolable you might have a problem with the numbers of years involved in this earth's history.
You forgot giant shopping centers, media outlets and controversial political campaigns.
To be fair, the LDS church does a lot of humanitarian donations and work for the needy, maybe more than any other church. But tithing isn't purely collected for noble deeds. It is also invested and gambled with in purely commercial enterprises. But, at least the church leaders themselves don't seem to become millionaires on contributions like some of the televangelests.
I would be much happier with paying tithes if I took 10% of my earnings and burned it on an altar for god. Then no one could abuse my sacrifice.
The LDS Church owns investment arms that are commercial and are operated for a profit. From those profits orchards, ranches, etc. are purchased and operated to help the church fulfill its mission to be prepared for times of terrible adversity and scarcity that are prophesied to come to this earth, quite possibly in the very near future.
As I understand it, the investment arm/s of the church were originally organized because church leaders knew there would come a time when there would be many church members in third world countries who would not be able to contribute much to the financial needs of the church, so church operations in their nations would have to be heavily subsidized. That situation exists today with more members living outside of the USA than inside.
But the tithes of members of the church are not used for for-profit enterprises. Tithes are used to build and maintain local meetinghouses, temples, colleges, universities, etc.
My grandma was born and raised in Salt Lake as a Mormon, but left the faith when she left the state. I also know from the stories she told, and my own reading and research, that many LDS in position of power secretly don't believe any of it but still consider it a good way to raise a family.
Please provide links to valid sources from your "reading and research" that lend credence to your attempt to mislead others into thinking that LDS Church leaders do not believe church teachings. As an active member of the LDS Church for more than forty years, and one who has met many leaders, I know that you could not be more wrong!
And, by the way, there are no positions of "power" just unpaid callings for good, righteous, humble people to SERVE God and their fellow man...
[quote=stanman13;10130029]
Most of the objectionable aspects of the Mormon church as an organization were added and encouraged by Brigham Young, though, not Joseph Smith. For example, Smith was against polygamy; Young is the one who added it as a doctrine after he was able to wrest power within the church from Smith. Smith became an exile within his own religion after Young came to power and set himself up as king.
/QUOTE]
Your knowledge of history is a bit lacking,brigham young didn't lead the church until after the murder of joseph smith.There was quite a power struggle after joseph smiths death and a fair percentage of church members chose to follow other leaders.The largest group did follow brigham young out to utah.Joseph Smith is also the one who recieved,[or claimed to,depending on your point of view],the revelation regarding polygymy,[although his wife,Emma,claimed otherwise after his death and taught her son that].
You have some very strange ideas about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members Stanman. I suggest that you browse a few official LDS sources to get a better understanding.
I have had direct experience with the Mormon church. I have had close contact with members of the church, both locally here in MI and with the Elders as well. No need to visit the website. I already know the story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
If you ask me, I would say the ultimate charlatan is Jesus himself for starting the avalanche of competing christian churches that have probably caused more worldwide pain, death, tyranny and fear than any other religion in the history of the planet.
Nope. You can thank Peter for that. He started the church, not Jesus. Peter was very quick to forget Jesus' lessons.
I have had direct experience with the Mormon church. I have had close contact with members of the church, both locally here in MI and with the Elders as well. No need to visit the website. I already know the story.
Nope. You can thank Peter for that. He started the church, not Jesus. Peter was very quick to forget Jesus' lessons.
What you wrote in post 46 clearly demonstrates to me that you do NOT know even the basics of "the story" and could thus benefit enormously by studying at official LDS sites if you are going to present yourself on this board as one who is well informed about LDS religious beliefs and history.
Are you claming to have secret information about Peter being rebellious against his risen Lord?? Would you care to edify readers of this thread by providing links to valid sources? Or do you just commonly express your personal opinions as if they are facts?
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