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Joseph Smith isn't the only author. A fair part of that book is lifted word for word from the King James bible.
Joseph Smith did not write the Nephite record, that was inscribed on ancient plates that were seen by quite a few witnesses. But yes, prophets of God do have a tendency to write similarly to other prophets. Wonder if it has something to do with each having a common Source of inspiration?
The Nephites brought sacred records with them from Jerusalem, that's why the prophets who wrote their record could quote from prophets such as Isaiah word for word. Also, the Savior appeared to his other sheep as he promised he would do after his resurrection. There, in the Americas he taught them much of what he had taught in the Old World.
Joseph Smith did not write the Nephite record, that was inscribed on ancient plates that were seen by quite a few witnesses. But yes, prophets of God do have a tendency to write similarly to other prophets. Wonder if it has something to do with each having a common Source of inspiration?
The Nephites brought sacred records with them from Jerusalem, that's why the prophets who wrote their record could quote from prophets such as Isaiah word for word. Also, the Savior appeared to his other sheep as he promised he would do after his resurrection. There, in the Americas he taught them much of what he had taught in the Old World.
I find it hard to believe that prophets in different times and in disparate cultures all spoke Tudor English. Even stranger that god would. Those people were not exactly fine and outstanding representatives of the human race.
I find it hard to believe that prophets in different times and in disparate cultures all spoke Tudor English. Even stranger that god would. Those people were not exactly fine and outstanding representatives of the human race.
Nephites of course did not write in Tudor English, they wrote in a language they called "reformed Egyptian."
Joseph Smith translated their writings into the language he and those around him were most familiar with in the early 1800's. For example, the Nephites did not use the word "church" but Joseph understood what they were describing when they were referring to an organization such as that called "a church" in his time, and so wrote the word "church."
The books of the bible were not originally written in "Tudor English" either.
Nephites of course did not write in Tudor English, they wrote in a language they called "reformed Egyptian."
Joseph Smith translated their writings into the language he and those around him were most familiar with in the early 1800's. For example, the Nephites did not use the word "church" but Joseph understood what they were describing when they were referring to an organization such as that called "a church" in his time, and so wrote the word "church."
The books of the bible were not originally written in "Tudor English" either.
No, they were translated into Tudor English on orders from King James, where they made it all fluffy and "eth" ish, changing things around to fit their cultural ideals. Joseph obviously was not "Tudor English", but his bible was. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened next.
Of course, this also means the bible itself is just as hokey.
But, if you've gotta be in a religion you might as well be mormon. it's no more or less true than any other church and teaches a fine and healthy lifestyle. I'm surrounded by you all and you make fine neighbors.
I'm sure there will be a high porportion of mormons in heaven. Just realize it's not a requirement for entry.
I'll only speak about my personal run-in's with Mormons.
Two of my co-workers are Mormon. One is an intelligent, friendly girl who attends Brigham Young University. She's nice and has aspirations, but didn't know where Cleveland was (used to be the 5th largest city in the U.S). I thought this to be odd.
My other co-worker might as well be brain-dead. It was obvious how sheltered she was.
I invited a few Mormons who knocked on my door inside for hot tea when they visited because it was so cold back in Cleveland. They were appreciative. We debated Joseph Smith and the Bible a bit which caught them off guard - clearly have never had their minds opened before.
It seems that in order for many to retain their religious beliefs [I'm an atheist], you sort of need to be sheltered and block yourself from new information. That'd disappointing.
My other run in with a Mormon was an almost-famous top-rated RB from Maryland who played for BYU's football team. I can't say his name, but let's just say he was an old friend no longer who wasn't a very good person. In fact, he was kicked off the football team. Needless to say, he was more open-minded but probably didn't espouse Mormon morals.
Hm... anything else... my only other run-in with Mormonism was the LDS funding of the anti-Prop-8 here in California. Essentially, they spent millions and million of dollars trying to fight gay marriage approval in the state of California. That move pretty much ruined any and all sympathy that any non-Christians had for them.
Oh, and Mitt Romney is a Mormon. I respected his political history and achievements A LOT but in running for Republican nomination for President, he completely sold out to the Christian religious Right and made himself entirely unable for me to vote for him. That was disappointing but had much more to do with Politics than religion, obviously.
Oprah had some LDS-loons on her tv show a few weeks ago. Nice people, just really quite ignorant of the world.
....But, if you've gotta be in a religion you might as well be mormon. it's no more or less true than any other church and teaches a fine and healthy lifestyle. I'm surrounded by you all and you make fine neighbors.
I'm sure there will be a high porportion of mormons in heaven. Just realize it's not a requirement for entry.
Actually, Latter-day Saints are among the few Christian denominations that teach that all good people go to heaven, regardless of which denomination, if any, they chose to keep their membership record in.
Keeping in mind of course that scriptures indicate that there are at least three heavens, and "many mansions."
Last edited by justamere10; 08-19-2009 at 01:00 PM..
I'll only speak about my personal run-in's with Mormons.
Two of my co-workers are Mormon. One is an intelligent, friendly girl who attends Brigham Young University. She's nice and has aspirations, but didn't know where Cleveland was (used to be the 5th largest city in the U.S). I thought this to be odd.
My other co-worker might as well be brain-dead. It was obvious how sheltered she was.
I invited a few Mormons who knocked on my door inside for hot tea when they visited because it was so cold back in Cleveland. They were appreciative. We debated Joseph Smith and the Bible a bit which caught them off guard - clearly have never had their minds opened before.
It seems that in order for many to retain their religious beliefs [I'm an atheist], you sort of need to be sheltered and block yourself from new information. That'd disappointing.
My other run in with a Mormon was an almost-famous top-rated RB from Maryland who played for BYU's football team. I can't say his name, but let's just say he was an old friend no longer who wasn't a very good person. In fact, he was kicked off the football team. Needless to say, he was more open-minded but probably didn't espouse Mormon morals.
Hm... anything else... my only other run-in with Mormonism was the LDS funding of the anti-Prop-8 here in California. Essentially, they spent millions and million of dollars trying to fight gay marriage approval in the state of California. That move pretty much ruined any and all sympathy that any non-Christians had for them.
Oh, and Mitt Romney is a Mormon. I respected his political history and achievements A LOT but in running for Republican nomination for President, he completely sold out to the Christian religious Right and made himself entirely unable for me to vote for him. That was disappointing but had much more to do with Politics than religion, obviously.
Oprah had some LDS-loons on her tv show a few weeks ago. Nice people, just really quite ignorant of the world.
In a world-wide organization with almost 14,000,000 members there are bound to be a few people such as you describe. But to paint all the others as being "sheltered" and somehow "blocked" in my opinion, to use your words, is downright "ignorant of the world."
Thanks for sharing your opinion though, you are certainly entitled to it.
You can find crazy people in all religions,the scary part is that some of them get put into leadership positions.
Amen to that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl
hate to break it to you, but this isn't a mormon phenomenon. i don't know if you have talked to any newly made atheists at all, but people are disillusioned with the smoke and mirrors of religion in general.
to try to claim that mormons hold the monopoly in that area is a bit asinine, not to mention a bit dishonest... which is what the smoke and mirrors are about in the first place.
If you noticed I never said that Mormons are or were the only religion that has issues when they learn the truth about the lies the church/religion teaches. I fully am aware that other religions have issues with people leaving and being upset about what they have been told all their lives. So please don’t put words in my mouth or in subjects in my text that were never there or implied.
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven." 2 Corinthians 12: 2
Perhaps God in His infinite wisdom knew that when he provided a time of mortality for His children and gave them the power to make choices, some would make more righteous choices than would others, and some would choose to be downright evil. He would therefore provide several levels of 'heaven' each with many mansions, and even a hell so those who were raped and murdered for example would not need to spend forever rubbing shoulders with unrepentant perpetrators.
"In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14: 2
See again you need to be reading the Scriptures before and after. Sounds like you need a study Bible or a Hebrew to English Bible to fully understand the context of what is being spoken, who is speaking and the circumstances around the text. Here on Earth we see sins on different levels but God see’s them as ALL the SAME. Sin is sin! There are no levels on how great or small a sin is. God see’s stealing a piece of gum from the store as sin just as he would see a person killing someone. Pride is another sin that we all have. But also a murderer or a rapist can be forgiven and go to heaven if he confesses his sins and becomes saved. We all go to the same heaven yet our gifts that we receive in heaven will vary based on how we were here on Earth.
The LDS get caught up so much on this “good works” idea. You shouldn’t do the good works to become saved or to get saved you do them because you are saved! You are saved and want to show God how thankful for what his son Jesus did for ALL of us on the cross that your actions should change once your saved. And just because your saved don’t mean your not going to still sin. Again “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” You are never fully sinless but when you are saved you should sin less. The way Mormons see “Good works” to be saved or to stay saved and to get greater rewards & temple recommends etc... you denouncing what Jesus did for you on the cross plus your giving yourself credit for what God has already done. This is a sin of pride.
Look at the thief on the cross with Jesus he was not baptized he did no good works but he confessed his sins, was forgiven and went to heaven with Jesus.
39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:39-43 KJV
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
Yes, I was aware of that, thanks for your concern that I might not be.
Speaking for myself only, as I understand it, God the Father is God to His own children only. That's what a God (capital G) is, a parent of spirit bodies. The same as each of us has only one father of our physical body, we have only one Father of our spirit body. In that way, there is only one God for us, one Heavenly Father, just as you and I and everyone else has only one father of our physical body.
Our children can potentially grow up and also become parents. Perhaps those "mere men" that you write about, being literally the sons and daughters of God as I believe we are, can potentially, if they choose to follow righteousness, 'grow up' and become like their heavenly parent/s as well??
Is that beyond the realm of possibility?
For those bold enough to think outside the box, it's something to think upon and to speculate about. If nothing else, perhaps it would give us even greater incentive to make right choices and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ even more firmly all of our mortal probationary days...
*****
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Romans 8: 16-17
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5: 48
"The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. Luke 6: 40
There are many more scriptures that urge us to become as much as possible like our Father in Heaven. We are to follow the example set by that perfect one, even Jesus the Christ.
"For the perfecting of the saints.... unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you."
Here's a link to numerous other scriptures about perfection (becoming as God is):
There are numerous scriptures indicating that man (a literal son or daughter of Heavenly Parents) has the potential to 'grow up' and become as are the parents of their spirit bodies:
Again, God does not expect us to be perfect. If we were to be perfect and free from sin, to this day we would still be in the Garden of Eden which is where God intended his people to be. But due to Adam and Eve’s sin we were cast out. They committed the “original sin” and now we all are born into sin. Original sin stains everyone. Even babies are born into sin. They obviously don’t understand but have been created spiritually weak, with a propensity toward sin, that will eventually and undeniably lead us to sin. True, they have not committed any sins, but they are "sinful" because they have inherit sin.
Look at Satan. He too thought he could become a “God” and denounced the power of God and was cast out of Heaven. Satan's sin was pride and rebellion against God. Satan wanted to put himself in the place of God as he said, "I will be like the most High".
12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.” Isaiah 14:12-15 KJV
“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” Luke 10:18
“Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.“ Ezekiel 28:14 KJV
7”And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:7-9 KJV
The Bible tells us that Satan is real and he exists. We are told that he is a spirit (Ephesians 6:12, Job 1:6-7). He is a spirit that lies (John 8:42 – 45)
We are told of his opposition against God and his people. We are told of how he is inferior to God (Colossians 1:16, 2:15).
The Bible tells us how Jesus defeated Satan and his demons. When Jesus was in the desert tempted by Satan, Jesus commands the devil to leave (Matthew 4:1-11). Unlike many others, Jesus never submitted to Satan’s temptations or authority.
Secondly evil spirits submitted to Jesus. In many of the exorcisms, demons fell down in front of Jesus and begged for mercy (Mark 1:32, Mark 5:1-20). The devil is a defeated foe.
Last edited by OhYaImThatChick; 08-20-2009 at 12:43 AM..
Joseph Smith did not write the Nephite record, that was inscribed on ancient plates that were seen by quite a few witnesses. But yes, prophets of God do have a tendency to write similarly to other prophets. Wonder if it has something to do with each having a common Source of inspiration?
The Nephites brought sacred records with them from Jerusalem, that's why the prophets who wrote their record could quote from prophets such as Isaiah word for word. Also, the Savior appeared to his other sheep as he promised he would do after his resurrection. There, in the Americas he taught them much of what he had taught in the Old World.
If you can believe this, you can believe anything.
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