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You encourage people to study the Bible, which is great, Mormons do that often. But I'm curious as to what bible you are referring to with your Jeremiah quote above. The King James version reads differently:
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end." Jeremiah 29: 11
Could one of the reasons why there are so many Christian denominations and so much bickering among Christians be because there are so many different translations of the bible, and so many different interpretations of specific verses within it?
The version that you quoted is from KJV I was quoting from the New Living only because for some it is easier to understand. I usually get all my info from the KJV since it is the one originally formed from the Hebrew and Greek translations.
There is nothing wrong with getting info from other sources as long as you understand what context your reading the scriptures in. I think the reason so much bickering goes on is because just like the LDS a lot of people take a scripture at full face value without looking at the original context of it. They read a verse and say “Oh ya this means this” (and a lot of them just believe what they are told since asking to many questions in the LDS faith is frowned upon) but they didn’t read the scripture before or after to see what the setting was and who was speaking etc. The best way is to go get a Hebrew to English or a Greek to English Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
Actually, Joseph Smith did not write "The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ". That book was written by prophets and kings over the years 600 B.C. and 421 A.D. Those prophets were descended from people the Lord led from Jerusalem to the Americas (his "other sheep.")
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10: 16
Joseph Smith translated the book from metal plates, "by the gift and power of God." About 13,000,000 people living today believe that book to be the word of God, comparable to the books contained in the Holy Bible.
Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon is the record ("stick" or scroll) of Joseph that was prophesied in the last days to be placed side by side with the Bible, which is the record ("stick") of Judah.
"Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand." Ezekiel 37: 19
Each Sunday, millions of Mormons pretty much all over the world walk to their places of worship carrying the bible and the Book of Mormon in the same hand.
Could that be a fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy?
Golden Plates that to this day have Never been found. The Bible has been authenticated time and time again, the original scrolls have been found as well. The Bible has maps with real places that you can visit where the BOM does not have maps. Could it be because these places don’t really exists? And no remains of the supposed Jaredite, Lamanite, or Nephite civilizations have ever been uncovered. In fact, archeology of the possible regions demonstrates that the types of cultures described simply did not exist at that time
Another truth to the Bible is the Bible is full of “codes” in these codes are amazing truths to the Bible and things that help prove the truth of it. Unlike the BOM or any other books that other religions have these codes can’t be found. Every letter in the Hebrew alphabet has a numerical value to it. These numbers are used to find the codes. They have found info in Genesis about all the trees that are in the Bible. They have found info about the Holocaust and in Isaiah 53 They found info that talked about Jesus being crucified as well as they have found that all the names of the people that were there at the time Jesus was crucified. The only name that was not mentioned? Juda.
The Torah is the 5 first books of the Bible. In Hebrew they have found hidden codes in the first 5 books. In Genesis they found the Hebrew word TORH then in Exodus they found the same. Then in Numbers and Deuteronomy they found TORH but the found it backwards HROT and then in Leviticus they found YHWH which is Hebrew for Jesus. Its all comes back to Jesus. I’m sorry but you will not find this in the BOM.
God wrote the Bible knowing people would try to disprove it. And the more they do the more proof they find to the validity of it. Obviously God isn’t just going to let everything be known to us all at once but in time as God feels we need to see it.
“It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.” Proverbs 25:2 KJV
And once again unlike the Book of Mormon, Pearl of great price and the D&C the Bible Never, never changes its the true word of God. The Pearl of Great price and the D&C are ever changing doctrines. Every time a new prophet has a revelation they change something(s). How many times have the scriptures in your books changed? vs how many times have the scriptures in the Bible changed?
There is nothing wrong with getting info from other sources as long as you understand what context your reading the scriptures in. I think the reason so much bickering goes on is because just like the LDS a lot of people take a scripture at full face value without looking at the original context of it. They read a verse and say “Oh ya this means this” (and a lot of them just believe what they are told since asking to many questions in the LDS faith is frowned upon) but they didn’t read the scripture before or after to see what the setting was and who was speaking etc. The best way is to go get a Hebrew to English or a Greek to English Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhYaImThatChick
Golden Plates that to this day have Never been found. The Bible has been authenticated time and time again, the original scrolls have been found as well.
Wrong. The original scrolls have never been found. What we do have are copies that were copied from copies. If the gold plates were here for you to see with your own eyes, would you convert?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhYaImThatChick
The Bible has maps with real places that you can visit where the BOM does not have maps. Could it be because these places don’t really exists? And no remains of the supposed Jaredite, Lamanite, or Nephite civilizations have ever been uncovered. In fact, archeology of the possible regions demonstrates that the types of cultures described simply did not exist at that time
What does physical evidence have to do with faith? With all the "proof" of the Bible there are still millions of atheists. London is mentioned in Harry Potter...and is a real place...Harry Potter is true!
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhYaImThatChick
Another truth to the Bible is the Bible is full of “codes” in these codes are amazing truths to the Bible and things that help prove the truth of it. Unlike the BOM or any other books that other religions have these codes can’t be found. Every letter in the Hebrew alphabet has a numerical value to it. These numbers are used to find the codes. They have found info in Genesis about all the trees that are in the Bible. They have found info about the Holocaust and in Isaiah 53 They found info that talked about Jesus being crucified as well as they have found that all the names of the people that were there at the time Jesus was crucified. The only name that was not mentioned? Juda.
The Torah is the 5 first books of the Bible. In Hebrew they have found hidden codes in the first 5 books. In Genesis they found the Hebrew word TORH then in Exodus they found the same. Then in Numbers and Deuteronomy they found TORH but the found it backwards HROT and then in Leviticus they found YHWH which is Hebrew for Jesus. Its all comes back to Jesus. I’m sorry but you will not find this in the BOM.
Sigh.
The Book of Mormon is full of wonderful things such as this. Chiasmus for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhYaImThatChick
God wrote the Bible knowing people would try to disprove it. And the more they do the more proof they find to the validity of it. Obviously God isn’t just going to let everything be known to us all at once but in time as God feels we need to see it.
“It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.” Proverbs 25:2 KJV
And once again unlike the Book of Mormon, Pearl of great price and the D&C the Bible Never, never changes its the true word of God. The Pearl of Great price and the D&C are ever changing doctrines. Every time a new prophet has a revelation they change something(s). How many times have the scriptures in your books changed? vs how many times have the scriptures in the Bible changed?
That's funny. Do you even know how the Bible came to be? God didn't write the Bible. The Bible is a collection of books. At one time there were certain books in the Bible, then they were taken out only to be put back in X amount of years later. Sounds like changing to me
I liked what you said here- "Obviously God isn’t just going to let everything be known to us all at once but in time as God feels we need to see it. " Sums up why I believe in continuing revelation.
See again you need to be reading the Scriptures before and after. Sounds like you need a study Bible or a Hebrew to English Bible to fully understand the context of what is being spoken, who is speaking and the circumstances around the text. Here on Earth we see sins on different levels but God see’s them as ALL the SAME. Sin is sin! There are no levels on how great or small a sin is. God see’s stealing a piece of gum from the store as sin just as he would see a person killing someone. Pride is another sin that we all have. But also a murderer or a rapist can be forgiven and go to heaven if he confesses his sins and becomes saved. We all go to the same heaven yet our gifts that we receive in heaven will vary based on how we were here on Earth.
Judging by your style, with respect, you appear to revel in condescension. But I do admire someone who figures they have it all figured out when it comes to matters of faith, and doesn't hesitate to proclaim their beliefs to others.
That "context" you refer to is just your own interpretation of bible verses preceding and following the verse being discussed. But if context is so meaningful to you I invite you to broaden your point of view by studying the Book of Mormon and other revelations from God that have come forth in these last days. You could then get a much better grasp of what you read in the few books scholars chose to include in today's bible...
You are merely expressing your opinion, not speaking for God when you write "God sees..." etc. and how God judges murderers and rapists. But you are certainly entitled to do that, I personally am glad that you are participating on this board.
The LDS get caught up so much on this “good works” idea. You shouldn’t do the good works to become saved or to get saved you do them because you are saved! You are saved and want to show God how thankful for what his son Jesus did for ALL of us on the cross that your actions should change once your saved. And just because your saved don’t mean your not going to still sin. Again “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” You are never fully sinless but when you are saved you should sin less. The way Mormons see “Good works” to be saved or to stay saved and to get greater rewards & temple recommends etc... you denouncing what Jesus did for you on the cross plus your giving yourself credit for what God has already done. This is a sin of pride.
Look at the thief on the cross with Jesus he was not baptized he did no good works but he confessed his sins, was forgiven and went to heaven with Jesus.
39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:39-43 KJV
I think most faithful Mormons would disagree with your assessment of what motivates them to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Regarding the thief on the cross, I didn't go back to the scriptures to check on this but didn't Jesus say to Mary a few days after the death of the thief that he had not yet ascended to his Father in Heaven?
With the added context of much more scripture available than that in the books of the bible, and living apostles and prophets in our time, it is much easier to understand the verses you quote.
The very day Jesus and the thief died, their spirits went to the temporary spirit worlds where all spirits go when their physical bodies die and they are not yet resurrected. That spirit world is divided into "spirit prison" and "paradise". The thief's spirit was with the Lord that day in Paradise, not in the celesial world where God the Father lives.
Spirits go to Paradise if the majority of their choices on earth leaned towards righteousness. They go to the spirit prison if they chose primarily evil deeds and thoughts during their mortal test and failed to repent. Missionaries teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those in the spirit worlds who have not yet been exposed to it. Taught spirits then have choices to make which result in eternal progression, or a wonderful but lesser heaven.
God is just, to all of His children. Baptism and other essential earthly ordinances not received during one's lifetime take place by proxy in temples that are beginning to spring up in many countries, and which will dot the earth during the Millennium.
That's not just opinion, that's seeing things from a much richer context than what one gets from limiting one's religious studies to just the books of the bible. There's no need for that self-imposed limitation. As prophesied, God has provided the fulness of His gospel plan of salvation in this the long-awaited Dispensation of the Fulness of Time.
These, the last days of this world prior to its change back to a paradisiacal state as it was in the Garden of Eden, are exciting times in which to live...
"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:" Ephesians 1: 10
....There is nothing wrong with getting info from other sources as long as you understand what context your reading the scriptures in. I think the reason so much bickering goes on is because just like the LDS a lot of people take a scripture at full face value without looking at the original context of it. They read a verse and say “Oh ya this means this” (and a lot of them just believe what they are told since asking to many questions in the LDS faith is frowned upon) but they didn’t read the scripture before or after to see what the setting was and who was speaking etc. The best way is to go get a Hebrew to English or a Greek to English Bible.
I'm glad you accept the validity of learning about God from sources other than the limited information available in the few books scholars decided to put into the bible.
You might be more credible if you ceased to proclaim that "the LDS" (all 13,500,000 of them I suppose) and others do not study the bible in context. We're all learning OhYa, and ultimately we all walk by faith, the way God intended this mortal experience to be...
Golden Plates that to this day have Never been found. The Bible has been authenticated time and time again, the original scrolls have been found as well. The Bible has maps with real places that you can visit where the BOM does not have maps. Could it be because these places don’t really exists? And no remains of the supposed Jaredite, Lamanite, or Nephite civilizations have ever been uncovered. In fact, archeology of the possible regions demonstrates that the types of cultures described simply did not exist at that time
I think you are incorrect with much of what you write about the bible, but I'm ok with you 'defending' the bible. I too reverence and study the books of the bible.
What I'm not ok with is your obviously ignorant put downs of LDS beliefs and the Book of Mormon. Have you ever read and prayed about The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ?
What if, as many millions of people living today proclaim, the Book of Mormon is the actual word of God, ANOTHER testament of Jesus Christ, comparable to the word delivered in the books of the bible?
Why do you attack what rationally could be words God has given to His children on earth specifically for our time? Why not just stop attacking and smearing someone else's beliefs and get on with telling us the wonderful things about God you have learned because of your membership in a different Christian denomination??
The prophets who wrote the books included in today's Book of Mormon knew that the Nephite record would come forth in the latter days. They knew that the Lord would provide a spiritual proof of its truthfulness. He would provide that proof to those who would read it and sincerely ask of God if it is true.
The proof of the Book of Mormon is a spiritual one.
But of course, keeping in mind the proof the Lord has provided, some scholars and others probe for physical 'proofs' of the Book of Mormon too, just as some probe for physical evidences of the validity of the bible.
To my knowledge nothing much if anything has yet been proven scientifically about the location of Book of Mormon events, but there are many things evident, as there are with the bible.
Here's a quote from an anthropologist who is a member of the LDS Church:
"Book of Mormon cities have been found, they are well known, and their artifacts grace the finest museums. They are merely masked by archaeological labels such as "Maya," "Olmec," and so on. The problem, then, is not that Book of Mormon artifacts have not been found, only that they have not been recognized for what they are. Again, if we stumbled onto Zarahemla, how would we know? The difficulty is not with evidence but with epistemology."
John E. Clark, Professor of anthropology, BYU, Director of NWAF, Chiapas, Mexico. Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, Vol 14, No. 2, 2005, p.42
Last edited by justamere10; 08-20-2009 at 01:41 PM..
And once again unlike the Book of Mormon, Pearl of great price and the D&C the Bible Never, never changes its the true word of God. The Pearl of Great price and the D&C are ever changing doctrines. Every time a new prophet has a revelation they change something(s). How many times have the scriptures in your books changed? vs how many times have the scriptures in the Bible changed?
And once again, your put downs of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and their beliefs are not true, the questions you raise invalid.
I suggest that you open a thread to teach us about the doctrines of the church you affiliate with instead of trying to deceive members of this board about the Mormons.
But if you really want to, you could learn some truth about the Mormons at the following link:
If you noticed I never said that Mormons are or were the only religion that has issues when they learn the truth about the lies the church/religion teaches. I fully am aware that other religions have issues with people leaving and being upset about what they have been told all their lives. So please don’t put words in my mouth or in subjects in my text that were never there or implied.
you didn't say it, but i am more than willing to bet that this was the thought in your head when you wrote it, judging by the rest of your posts, and that you are a liar again if you expect people to not understand that this was your implication.
feel free to go back and read your words in the context of condescension that has already been noted.
The experience's I have had with the Mormon folks in small town America have been exceedingly
positive. In every aspect these young people are polite, well dressed, and extremely knowledgeble
about their mission work. I agree with some folks that there may be some limited and well worn controversies regarding past history Mormon activities. This certainly should not reflect upon the tremendous success of the Mormon Church of today and it's enormous influence on the world scene.
One of the most beautiful sites in Washington D.C. on any early morning or late evening drive is
the magnificent Mormon Tabernacle which looms high in the skyline and is a masterpiece of architecture. Yes, the Mormon Church in my area is well respected and maintains a prominent
place in the community. Although I am not a Mormon I have a great respect for these exceptional folks. Thank You L. Funk
you didn't say it, but i am more than willing to bet that this was the thought in your head when you wrote it, judging by the rest of your posts, and that you are a liar again if you expect people to not understand that this was your implication.
feel free to go back and read your words in the context of condescension that has already been noted.
either way
I don't think in any way shape or form I lied to anyone! Mormons are not the only religion that have issues with that. But umm if you didn't notice this was a thread about Mormons thus the reason I didn't add any other religions into the mix.
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