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The Church of Jesus Christ is established on a foundation of revelation and authorized apostles who receive that revelation from God.
Conditions on earth change as time goes on, sometimes change very rapidly. Don't you think, if the Lord's church was once again on the earth with a living Prophet, that the Lord would speak his will and wisdom to God's children through that Prophet, as He did anciently?
If life on earth never changed, the Lord's church would not need to change to adapt to new circumstances. Remember God's commandment (recorded in the New Testament) for the gospel to be taught only to the Hebrews, and sometime later for it to also be taught to the gentiles?
As God better prepares a covenant people, He is better able to reach more effectively those of His children on earth who are not yet aware of the fulness of His gospel and His marvellous Plan of Salvation for all.
It doesn't sound like a marvelous plan to exclude the vast majority of humanity from access to the truth. It also sounds very human for a group of people to get together and say "We're special-er than all the rest!"
I just don't see a just god determining your eternal rewards and punishments by the choices you made while flying blind through a world where everyone claims to know the truth but no one has any proof. And besides demonstrating your devotion to the other members, what effect would baptisms, temple ceremonies and the like have to do with anything? Why would a guy have to die to pay for the sins of the world? It sounds like a lot of silly and unecessary red tape, really.
I also have a problem with people that say they'll get you to heaven for the low low price of 10% of your income and unflinching devotion to everything they say.
Bear in mind, this stuff is true of pretty much every religion I've encountered, so I'm not just picking on mormons here. I don't hate mormons or think they are any better or worse off than any religion, nor do I hate religion in general. I just hate being taken advantage of.
It doesn't sound like a marvelous plan to exclude the vast majority of humanity from access to the truth. It also sounds very human for a group of people to get together and say "We're special-er than all the rest!"
I just don't see a just god determining your eternal rewards and punishments by the choices you made while flying blind through a world where everyone claims to know the truth but no one has any proof. And besides demonstrating your devotion to the other members, what effect would baptisms, temple ceremonies and the like have to do with anything? Why would a guy have to die to pay for the sins of the world? It sounds like a lot of silly and unecessary red tape, really.
In LDS belief the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Heavenly Father's "Plan of Salvation") is being taught by missionaries in the world of spirits (where we go when we die) to those who did not have an opportunity to hear it while they were on earth. They can then accept or reject it and thus open up endless possibilities for eternal progression, or in effect "damn" their own progression by being disbelieving or content with their existing knowledge and behavior. ALL of God's children will eventually receive the same opportunities to advance, but it's up to each individual to freely choose to do so.
Baptism, temple ordinances, etc. are sacred covenants we make with God. They are portions of what He requires of us as we advance along His path. As we accept and keep those covenants, we demonstrate our willingness to follow Him and to always be faithful to His Plan for the eternal happiness and progression of His children as they pass trials and tests and choose to accept opportunities to become more and more like Him.
The Atonement worked out perfectly by that "guy" known by most Christians as Jesus Christ, the only begotten in the flesh of God the Father, is what makes it possible, because mercy and justice must balance, for each of us to eventually be resurrected (physical and spirit bodies united forever) and for those who choose to do so to progress forever. Without that "guy" when we died that would be the end of our ability to progress beyond this mortal life.
I also have a problem with people that say they'll get you to heaven for the low low price of 10% of your income and unflinching devotion to everything they say.
Bear in mind, this stuff is true of pretty much every religion I've encountered, so I'm not just picking on mormons here. I don't hate mormons or think they are any better or worse off than any religion, nor do I hate religion in general. I just hate being taken advantage of.
My guess is that most faithful Christians who obey the law of tithing do not feel that they are being taken advantage of. Temporal organizations of all kinds need temporal assets to build and maintain essential physical structures, operate programs vital to their mission etc.
God could show His church's leaders where all the gold in the world is and how to get it if He wanted to. Tithing is a law designed for the testing and the blessing of man. But it's only one of many laws; paying one's tithes is not necessarily going to get one into heaven.
Yea and I don't they don't make you tithe either, I mean if you can't afford 10 percent give whatever you can. Just like anything else they do need funds to survive and you partake in their services.
I'm not attacking you or your beliefs, but I am. Many apologies.
If christ did reestablish his church under Joe Smith than why did he let him and subsequent church leaders change it into something very different over the next 150 years? Did mormonism go astray like the origional christian church?
Mormonism went from a closed polygamous isolationist society to an open, worldwide and very mainstream acceptable church, just as exterior pressures pushed it to do. Dozens of doctrines changed or evolved, and mormonism evolved from cult to a full grown religion just as every other religion has before it with plenty of trial and error in the process. To me it sounds like normal human progression, not divine intervention.
Reading the New Testament, I get the impression that Jesus himself didn't really want to start a organized religion, just tell people to live a good life.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I interpret the writing on the wall.
But please clarify: If you think Jesus Christ so want we live a decent life, would not have been the same season for Him? And yet Jesus organized a church.
This is about what are general conceptions of Mormons right? Well, this is what I 'think' I know (not checking)...I believe that Mormons think there are 3 levels to heaven and you can go down to see people in the other levels but people can't go up to see you or something and they don't believe in hell and they don't like alcohol and they have had a wonderful contestant on Jeopardy and it is really really hard to be 'all the way Mormon' I think you have to follow a bunch of stuff to even partake in holy sacraments in the church....this could all be wrong.......but if the starter of this thread wanted to know what other people think about their church that's about it as far as what I think of with Mormons.
You really know many things, but surely has a lot more good things than that. We see here that people do so to historical facts or something like polygamy or the War of Utah, do not know. They dont remember that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church, as is the name of the church ..
In LDS belief the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Heavenly Father's "Plan of Salvation") is being taught by missionaries in the world of spirits (where we go when we die) to those who did not have an opportunity to hear it while they were on earth. They can then accept or reject it and thus open up endless possibilities for eternal progression, or in effect "damn" their own progression by being disbelieving or content with their existing knowledge and behavior. ALL of God's children will eventually receive the same opportunities to advance, but it's up to each individual to freely choose to do so.
Baptism, temple ordinances, etc. are sacred covenants we make with God. They are portions of what He requires of us as we advance along His path. As we accept and keep those covenants, we demonstrate our willingness to follow Him and to always be faithful to His Plan for the eternal happiness and progression of His children as they pass trials and tests and choose to accept opportunities to become more and more like Him.
The Atonement worked out perfectly by that "guy" known by most Christians as Jesus Christ, the only begotten in the flesh of God the Father, is what makes it possible, because mercy and justice must balance, for each of us to eventually be resurrected (physical and spirit bodies united forever) and for those who choose to do so to progress forever. Without that "guy" when we died that would be the end of our ability to progress beyond this mortal life.
That is a well written sermon and would fit just fine in a teaching handbook, but it still begs the question why? Why would god make people jump through hoops for them to progress and why does someone need to be physically murdered to pay for an ethereal and culturally subjective concept like sin? And if it is so important is it really fair to communicate the message through human mediators which can be easily distrusted and discounted by otherwise rational intelligent people? The whole thing reeks of men seeking to control men. Again, this is not unlike any other religion in my opinion.
One more question. Does the LDS church separate the religious institution from spirituality or do they belive they are one and the same? In other words, is the church the source of spirituality or a simply a tool to help get in touch with spirituality? I ask because from observation, mormonism seems to be more of a way of life than just a standard church.
But please clarify: If you think Jesus Christ so want we live a decent life, would not have been the same season for Him? And yet Jesus organized a church.
He was kind of late comming. Humans have been around in our anatomically modern form for 150,000 to 450,000 years, and so has religion, apparently. It is strange the one true way would only appear in the last 2% of the timeline of human existence. I don't understand the rest of your question, however.
Born and raised in Idaho, and went to college in Logan, Utah, so I've been around a few mormons in my life.
I, myself, am an atheist.
My opinion:
Pick any random person in the world, of whatever philisophical belief structure, religious or not. There is a chance that person is a good, moral person, and a chance they are not.
Pick 1000 or 10,000 random people from each and every belief structure (that has that many followers), and you will get roughly an equal number of "good" and "bad" people in each group.
Moral of the story: There are good people and bad people in all walks of life.
Mormons are just like anyone else, some are very judgemental, some are not at all. Most people are judgemental about something.
Anyway, as an atheist, I'm not one for any religions, but I have many mormon friends from college, and they are good people. I also have mormon grandparents on one side, and they were very good people.
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