Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
[quote=NightBazaar;10242156]Okay, so the Roman historians wrote about discovering giant skeletons taller than 30 ft. Human skeletons? Or animal skeletons? (Source of , and in many others found on the net. If you can access Plutarch, Pliny, and others, you can go read them for yourself. Dino Land Paleontology Features: Accounts of Greek and Roman Paleontology, By Adrienne Mayor
And 1 Enoch says This caused the flood of Noah to be sent to cleanse the earth, because all flesh was corrupted -mixed up unlawfully, to provoke God, by the teachings of the sons of God to the Adam race by teaching their daughter of Adam wives the 'secrets' of gene splicing, among other "secrets".
So then by that account, since only humans of the Adam race were on the Ark, the entire race of giants would have been been killed by the flood. But the Biblical accounts talk about giants like Goliath.
Quote:
[Chapter 7]
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells* [others give 450 ft]: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
A 30+ foot tall giant is impossible enough to imagine, but 450 feet tall? I'm not saying the text doesn't say that, but do you actually believe there were human/giants that were 450 feel tall? Thnk about it. That would be as tall as the Great Pyramid of Giza (455 feet) is today.
For that matter, do you honestly believe there were mutant giants that were half human with an insect abdomen, legs, and whatever, as shown in the Sumerian tablet? Or do you think it's more likely an artistic personification of a locust plague? The Sumerians would have certainly been familiar with locusts.
So then by that account, since only humans of the Adam race were on the Ark, the entire race of giants would have been been killed by the flood. But the Biblical accounts talk about giants like Goliath.
The giants before Goliath's diminished size were so big that the Israeli spies were like grasshoppers in their sight. The giants of Lebanon left the ruins of Baalbek, with quarried stones so large that no modern machinery can move them. There are quarried stones from giant built ruins all over the earth like that, so large; that no modern machinery can move them or lift them.
The chained angels were chained as warnings to other angels not to do the same, says Jude, as the destruction [nuking] of Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plain were warnings to other men not to do the same. Angels who did not heed the warning also fell after the flood, and went in to daughters of Adam, and giants were born to them, as Moses wrote in Genesis 6; among those giants born after the flood was Anak, the ancestor of Og, and of Goliath's family: and men who did not and do not heed the warning of the nuking of Sodom have also committed the same fornication, violence, and iniquities that God warned them by the nuking of the cities of the plain.
God will consume sin on earth by the judgments He sends on earth during the great tribulation, which Enoch said is the time of the second consumation of sin on earth, as Enoch wrote that the flood would be and was, the first consumation of sin on earth.
Quote:
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, [which come] of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar
A 30+ foot tall giant is impossible enough to imagine, but 450 feet tall? I'm not saying the text doesn't say that, but do you actually believe there were human/giants that were 450 feel tall? Thnk about it. That would be as tall as the Great Pyramid of Giza (455 feet) is today.
For that matter, do you honestly believe there were mutant giants that were half human with an insect abdomen, legs, and whatever, as shown in the Sumerian tablet? Or do you think it's more likely an artistic personification of a locust plague? The Sumerians would have certainly been familiar with locusts.
Enoch wrote that they mixed kinds, crossing the boundaries which God set for the kinds, by genetic manipulation -gene splicing, translated as "cutting of roots". They did it to provoke God, writes Moses, in Jasher.
I guess you aren't aware that it is and has been being done again, done again, in labs around the world. I think Great Britain gave permission to mix kinds recently, in the labs.
Quote:
Book of Jasher 4: And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.
Give them a few years and you'll begin seeing what was done before the flood and after the flood with the mixture of kinds by genetic manipulation, rise agai, as it did after the flood in Shinar -Nimrod's kingdom.
I think the major mixing of kinds will come out of Iraq [where it began again after the flood] when it becomes a major thing in the world again, because of what is written in Zechariah 5: 5-11, when the spirit of the harlot -iniquity- has a "foundation set up for her in Shinar". Those women in Zech with wings like storks, carrying that woman in the basket are "sirens", demon spirits of the nephillim. Enoch wrote that the females of those offspring of the giants would be sirens in the earth, when disembodied.
As to how tall the giants were before the flood, yes; I believe there were giants in the earth in those days. Fossils are found of oysters so huge they would have weighed a half ton, and so on and so forth in all kinds of creatures which were fossilized from the time of the flood of Noah.
BTW, YSM, since you universally decry the Geologic cvolumn expressly to deflate any ideas of natural planetary evolution and population growth, how exactly do you explain the current population of our planet? I mean, given that Noah ground his Ark onto that mountaintop only, what was it, 2000 years ago? How many humans were on board? And what was the numbers of men and women? Were they all white/Arabic? If so, where did the current Chinese, Indian, N. am. Indian, Negro, Inuit, S. American Indian, Himalayan and northern Euro types all descend from?
Are all current people that closely related, sibling-wise? Why aren't we all infested with massive genetic inbreeding problems if we all descended from one very small family of what, four people?
And at a reasonable rate of one baby every year for each of two women (don't even know if there were that many...) and, nope, no baby every six months, unless you want the poor woman to go toss herself off the end of the beached Ark, how many in each (approx) 30 year generational period?
Exponential growth OK, but did no-one die from any disease, no mothers died during childbirth, or from complications? Did all the children miraculously survive to be healthy kids? No predators carrying them off?
Otf course, here had to be large populations of Romans, Greeks, Arabs, Jews, Chinesse and all the rest by a mere 1000 years later for the popular biblical stories to be held accountable.
Because, frankly, I saw the calculations, with everything perfect (no deaths, no genetic disorders, no disease, no killings, etc.)_, and in 2000 years there could only be about 2.8 M people. Absolute imaginary maximum, with no causes of any deaths, every mother reproducing at her imaghinary maximum, from the age of 154 through to age 45.
Pretty unlikely huh? Actually, it's completely impossible, frankly, and you know it, but won't admit it.
Where did the other 5.9 Billion come from? Especially those of different ethnic (i.e.: genetic) origin? Did anyone tell the Chinese about this, when their written history goes back before Arkist theory by about 10,000 years? I mean, that they don't exist?
Questions, questions, questions.
But then, I expect answers, answers, answers.
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yert?
The giants before Goliath's diminished size were so big that the Israeli spies were like grasshoppers in their sight. The giants of Lebanon left the ruins of Baalbek, with quarried stones so large that no modern machinery can move them. There are quarried stones from giant built ruins all over the earth like that, so large; that no modern machinery can move them or lift them.
I guess you aren't aware that it is and has been being done again, done again, in labs around the world. I think Great Britain gave permission to mix kinds recently, in the labs.
As to how tall the giants were before the flood, yes; I believe there were giants in the earth in those days. Fossils are found of oysters so huge they would have weighed a half ton, and so on and so forth in all kinds of creatures which were fossilized from the time of the flood of Noah.
You presume wrong to assume I'm not aware of work in the area of genetics. I'm quite aware of it. But there are no 450-foot giants coming out of the labs.
Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying about Goliath. If he was a giant regardless of diminished size, then he had to be descended from the race of giants as you indicated. But how could he or any other giant be from the race of giants if all the giants, etc. were destroyed by the flood of Noah? If Noah and his family were all that was left in the world from the race of Adam, then where did giants, like Goliath, come from?
I don't have a problem about understanding giant oysters or clams. They exist in the oceans today. I don't know if any weigh 1000 lbs, but they can be quite heavy. Regardless, a giant oyster is one thing, but a 450-foot tall human giant? In the movies, but I think it's pretty safe to say there were no human giants as tall as the Great Pyramid. Where are the fossils of these things?
I think it's also safe to say there were no half-human/half/insect freaks either. Although I do recall spending 25-cents about a half-century ago at a carnival sideshow to see up-close and in person, truly amazing sites never before gazed upon by civilized man, authentic wonders from the far parts of the world right here and guaranteed leave you astonished!
- The Half-Woman/Half-Spider waiting for her next meal!
- Strange Mermaids from the South Pacific!
- A Tibetan Yeti from a tribe, all with Gigantic Feet!
- And a 20-foot tall Giant Persian King, he's over 10,000 years old!
BTW, YSM, since you universally decry the Geologic cvolumn expressly to deflate any ideas of natural planetary evolution and population growth, how exactly do you explain the current population of our planet? I mean, given that Noah ground his Ark onto that mountaintop only, what was it, 2000 years ago? How many humans were on board? And what was the numbers of men and women? Were they all white/Arabic? If so, where did the current Chinese, Indian, N. am. Indian, Negro, Inuit, S. American Indian, Himalayan and northern Euro types all descend from?
Are all current people that closely related, sibling-wise? Why aren't we all infested with massive genetic inbreeding problems if we all descended from one very small family of what, four people?
And at a reasonable rate of one baby every year for each of two women (don't even know if there were that many...) and, nope, no baby every six months, unless you want the poor woman to go toss herself off the end of the beached Ark, how many in each (approx) 30 year generational period?
Exponential growth OK, but did no-one die from any disease, no mothers died during childbirth, or from complications? Did all the children miraculously survive to be healthy kids? No predators carrying them off?
Otf course, here had to be large populations of Romans, Greeks, Arabs, Jews, Chinesse and all the rest by a mere 1000 years later for the popular biblical stories to be held accountable.
Because, frankly, I saw the calculations, with everything perfect (no deaths, no genetic disorders, no disease, no killings, etc.)_, and in 2000 years there could only be about 2.8 M people. Absolute imaginary maximum, with no causes of any deaths, every mother reproducing at her imaghinary maximum, from the age of 154 through to age 45.
Pretty unlikely huh? Actually, it's completely impossible, frankly, and you know it, but won't admit it.
Where did the other 5.9 Billion come from? Especially those of different ethnic (i.e.: genetic) origin? Did anyone tell the Chinese about this, when their written history goes back before Arkist theory by about 10,000 years? I mean, that they don't exist?
Questions, questions, questions.
But then, I expect answers, answers, answers.
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yert?
Answers! Answers! Answers! -but will you heed?
The flood was over 4500 years ago, and according to 1 Enoch, in the dream vision parables which tell the history of the earth from the beginning to the end, Noah was white but his father was not, and had a white son, a black son, and a red son. No doubt their wives varied as much. We are all deswcended from 8 people, who got off the Ark. We began to be scattered over the earth and isolated after the fall of the Tower of Babel. That did not happen overnight, but it began then.
Since Babel the tribes of earth have become genetically isolated so that the gene pool was smaller as men were scattered over the earth. So there is not the diversity in families as there was from the beginning.
Adam had a genetically perfect body, and the woman was built from a rib with flesh taken right out of his own body, with the share of his own one, Adam, spirit divided off for her;
Quote:
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman [Hebrew Ishyah], because she was taken out of Man [Hebrew Ish]. Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. ...
Adam and Eve were one flesh, one bone, one blood, one spirit, made male and female, and genetically perfect.
It took a long time for the curse of sin to make marrying siblings harmful for the race. There was no ban on that until Moses. The tribal rulers of nations still married siblings for millennia, and bore idiots. -Some still do marry siblings, worldwide.
Abram was not married to a sibling, but to a niece, the daughter of his brother, who was a half brother. Jasher explains the connection, and Sarai is said in Genesis to be the daughter of Haran; but in Genesis, her name, Isa, is used to denote that connection and those without Jasher are left clueless.
Population statistics work well for a young earth, but not for an old earth.
Quote:
Creation Evidence
4. Population Statistics......Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.
You presume wrong to assume I'm not aware of work in the area of genetics. I'm quite aware of it. But there are no 450-foot giants coming out of the labs....
Where are the fossils of these things?
Didn't say there were any such coming out of labs; but before the flood, they came out of the wombs of the daughters of Adam, as babies, who grew to those heights.
There were giants before the flood that tall -and taller; how would you know what the fossilized bones of a giant were, since they would be so gigantic that you would not recognize them. -Then, you would deny them anyway, wouldn't you, and claim that they were just rock anomalies that just "happened to be" shaped like human skeleton parts.
Trees grew taller than that, though, before the flood, and until recently, fossilized limbs of those trees which were strewn on the ground in North Dakota were thought to be just rock formations; but they are fossilized trees; so colossal as to boggle the mind.
Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying about Goliath. If he was a giant regardless of diminished size, then he had to be descended from the race of giants as you indicated. But how could he or any other giant be from the race of giants if all the giants, etc. were destroyed by the flood of Noah? If Noah and his family were all that was left in the world from the race of Adam, then where did giants, like Goliath, come from?
You did not read my reply to you on that. I completely answered it, from the Scriptures. More angels did that same sin after the flood, even though those before the flood were chained as a warning to them not to do that -there is a judgment coming, and the chai9ning was only a warning to others who would be tempted by the Satans to do the same [the Satans exist to tempt men and angels, as the book of Enoch and Jubilees also show].
Quote:
yeshuasavedme wrote; The giants before Goliath's diminished size were so big that the Israeli spies were like grasshoppers in their sight. The giants of Lebanon left the ruins of Baalbek, with quarried stones so large that no modern machinery can move them. There are quarried stones from giant built ruins all over the earth like that, so large; that no modern machinery can move them or lift them.
The chained angels were chained as warnings to other angels not to do the same, says Jude, as the destruction [nuking] of Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plain were warnings to other men not to do the same. Angels who did not heed the warning also fell after the flood, and went in to daughters of Adam, and giants were born to them, as Moses wrote in Genesis 6; among those giants born after the flood was Anak, the ancestor of Og, and of Goliath's family: and men who did not and do not heed the warning of the nuking of Sodom have also committed the same fornication, violence, and iniquities that God warned them by the nuking of the cities of the plain.
God will consume sin on earth by the judgments He sends on earth during the great tribulation, which Enoch said is the time of the second consumation of sin on earth, as Enoch wrote that the flood would be and was, the first consumation of sin on earth.
Quote: Gen 6:4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, [which come] of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
So sorry; your math is especially bad tonight! I won't even address your spectacularly bad knowledge of genetics, nor of the simple problems with two-by two animals trying to repopulate other than to advise you it can't happen. (But.. just for a practical example, have you noticed that the State of California rounded up all the wild condors when their numbers dropped below 50, because at that point the population spirals down into extinction. And those modern-day condors have always had some food to eat, and a team of biologists to protect and manage them, unlike the disembarkees off Noah's barge. for those unfortunates, even off the boat, there was no food, no potable water, no shelter, no transportation, no oxygen to breath at that altitude: all ignored by you and the wack-ball Creationists)
The global flood story states that only eight people were left alive in 2349 BCE. This does not allow enough time for humans to repopulate the earth. In 2000 BCE only 350 years after the flood the population of the world was 27 million. To go from a population of eight to a population of 27 million in 350 years would require a population growth rate of 136.07%. That is 133% more than the fastest growing portions of the world today.
And additionally, they did not have the benefits of modern disease-controlling medicine or obstetrics to maximize the production of kids. We also had known, recorded instances of plague, pestilence and massive religion-based wars, knocking off masses of people.
Comparing the populations of 1650 and 2000, 350 years apart, we see that it is possible for population to increase rapidly with improving living standards (food provision, health and welfare etc.). However such growth is incompatible with bronze/iron age civilizations.
The bible also places the date of construction on the Tower of Babel roughly 100 years after the great flood. Saying a population could go from 6 people (Noah and his wife don't count, they didn't have any more children) to enough people to build the Tower of Babel as it is described in the Bible is absurd. This tower was so great that it threatened God, so it must have been greater that the pyramid of Khufu which took 30,000 people to build. Even a growth rate of 500%, which is absurd beyond all imagination, would only produce about half the required people to even begin to think about such a construction project.
You also completely ignored my inquiry about the "source" for the Asian, African, Indian, Chinese, Inuit, European, Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon, Australopithicus and other known hominids. They were a tad bit different than Adam, who you say was perfect. What, a perfect white guy? A perfect Negro? A perfect Apache? Which? You have to make a choice!
And I'd like to hear your rationale about just how many organisms Noah had to have on his little barge. Because 600 million is far too many to have on board; the "poop" problem alone is, well, a sticky, smelly issue!
The contradictions are massive and persistent. You just prefer to ignore them. Especially the very evident Geologic Strata.
Hmmm. The obsession with 450' tall giants, spies the size of ants, and half-man/half-grasshoppers is a classic example of why people should stay away from DMT.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Problems, problems, problems.
She Doeth Deflect-eth Too Much, I Fear!
