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You might want to mention that to all those prophets of God in the Bible (both Hebrew and Greek parts) who dressed in hair outfits, ate horrible foods and lived a life of, what could justly be called, torture or asceticism.
If masochism is perversion - then what does that say about the prophets?
Are you going to judge them by your 21st century American standards?
Different time, different place, different culture.
Are you going to judge them by your 21st century American standards?
Different time, different place, different culture.
I'm not judging them in the slightest - even if it appears so. Where do I appear to judge them? Pointing out behavior is not judging. Even if these things occurred in a different time and place - they were not considered normal. Prophets were a strange bunch unto themselves.
I'm merely pointing out (thus my original quoting of you) that masochism (which is not merely a 21st century phenomenon) was alive and well among many of the prophets and that some of the instructions received by them (take a ***** as a wife, cook your food with human feces, etc.) exhibit quite perverse behavior: sadistic on the one commanding hand, and masochistic on the other receiving end.
To see this is not an isolated instance, it later became quite common among monks and ascetics (and the actual cenobites - I know we made jokes, but that name comes from actual people for a reason) to exhibit such behavior, in an effort to become closer to God, using the prophets as their models, and the self-denying teachings of Jesus and Paul. This doesn't make them right - it just shows a cogent fact about belief: it can quickly become perverse obsession, and I'm sure you realize that. Again - monks are usually separated to their own litle orders for a reason.
Any freewill being can do anything they want to. There is descending beings coming from heaven and the "heavens", and there are ascending beings trying to reach the heavens. We are ascending being trying to return to our creative source. All gravity of the physical, spiritual, and mental finds its origin in heaven.
The personal father of all resides in PARADISE where everything is perfect. Whoever lives with GOD in paradise doesn't evolve, how can perfection evolve or even sin? Heaven is different from the Universes. Some Universes are heaven -ike because they are closer to GOD and never changing Paradise. We are VERY VERY FAR REMOVED from GOD, paradise, and the heavens. Our existence is more recent.
Lucifer was created already a brilliant being who was near perfect who came from magnificent beginnings of a high order of sons of God, but through sin and error has fallen. Almost like a human such as Oprah Winfrey turning her fans into a cult. But Lucifer stood next to the most high fathers of a local universe not GOD the father of all. Jesus is the sovereign of our local universe. GOD of our local universe administration. From GOD the father's eternal perspective, Jesus (Michael) handled Lucifer in a flash of time. From a time perspective it was millions of years.
Satan is from the same sonship of God as Lucifer but at a lower level. The "devil" is none other than our deposed planetary prince, whom is from a sonship of God lower than Lucifer and Satan whose job is supposed to foster mankind.(Which he did for a while). Adam and Eve are from a sonship of God meant to biologically uplift mankind. (most ppl contain a trace of Adam's blood). Michael is the sovereign of the local universe and above them all. He bestowed himself in the flesh on earth as Jesus to take care of all of this. For a cosmic being like Jesus to walk on a physical planet out of a whole local universe is 1 in ten million.
There is a hierarchy in the universes. We are at the VERY BOTTOM
Any freewill being can do anything they want to. There is descending beings coming from heaven and the "heavens", and there are ascending beings trying to reach the heavens. We are ascending being trying to return to our creative source. All gravity of the physical, spiritual, and mental finds its origin in heaven.
The personal father of all resides in PARADISE where everything is perfect. Whoever lives with GOD in paradise doesn't evolve, how can perfection evolve or even sin? Heaven is different from the Universes. Some Universes are heaven -ike because they are closer to GOD and never changing Paradise. We are VERY VERY FAR REMOVED from GOD, paradise, and the heavens. Our existence is more recent.
Lucifer was created already a brilliant being who was near perfect who came from magnificent beginnings of a high order of sons of God, but through sin and error has fallen. Almost like a human such as Oprah Winfrey turning her fans into a cult. But Lucifer stood next to the most high fathers of a local universe not GOD the father of all. Jesus is the sovereign of our local universe. GOD of our local universe administration. From GOD the father's eternal perspective, Jesus (Michael) handled Lucifer in a flash of time. From a time perspective it was millions of years.
Satan is from the same sonship of God as Lucifer but at a lower level. The "devil" is none other than our deposed planetary prince, whom is from a sonship of God lower than Lucifer and Satan whose job is supposed to foster mankind.(Which he did for a while). Adam and Eve are from a sonship of God meant to biologically uplift mankind. (most ppl contain a trace of Adam's blood). Michael is the sovereign of the local universe and above them all. He bestowed himself in the flesh on earth as Jesus to take care of all of this. For a cosmic being like Jesus to walk on a physical planet out of a whole local universe is 1 in ten million.
There is a hierarchy in the universes. We are at the VERY BOTTOM
What about swimming pool algae and door-to-door magazine-subscription-sellers? Where would you rank them?
"The mind(Free-will) is a powerful thing, it can make a hell out of heaven, and so a heaven out of hell" ~ Paradise Lost, on why Satan and a whole 1/3 of the angels preferred Godless freedom in hell over tyrannic slavery in heaven.
As it turns out, Satan thought/said(lied) he had a good majority (51% of the angels fighting) on his side, and they would overthrow tyranny and establish freedom in heaven. No angel could possibly hurt another, since they are all immortal... only God could hurt them, so only God(the demiurge) had the capacity to commit evil upon them. If all the majority of angels turned against God, they would no longer have to suffer under YHWH's tyranny... truly, he thought, what was left of the demiurge (after creating the angels and maybe other things) could not possibly compare to ~34% of the angels (So powerful as they were). Turns out YHWH/Jesus was still pretty powerful and cast that rebellious third into hell, where they would not bother him and he would not bother WITH them, nor prove them right by killing them. The demons modeled hell upon heaven, working the land into a marvelous paradise for themselves. Once Satan saw Earth, he thought it was a better Paradise (or had more potential) than either heaven or hell. So he decided to go to the garden of Eden(the best place on Earth) and check stuff out before reporting back to his faithful legions in hell. Here he saw the humans, who were the chosen animal to care for Earth modeled upon the angels, and decided to trick them into acquiring "knowledge of good AND evil" to see if God/Jesus would also leave them/forsake them, and hand Earth over to the demons; who would truly be all the better for it. still Free yet happier than in hell (where the work was harder).
That is the jist of some of the Sections of Paradise Lost written by a devout Christian who begged the Holy Spirit to allow him to write the full and complete truth of the beginning of Genesis, and the rebellion of the enemy of God (Satan).
It implies of course, that Jesus had forsaken most of the descendants of Adam and Eve; the pagans were worshiping demons (demons aren't necessarily evil, they just wanted freedom from God) Then YHWH/Jesus would come and make "covenants" with some people he would chose to test if they could keep themselves moral. Then after a while of failure after failure, Jesus decided to see what it would be like being Human, then he realized it wasn't so coolio, allowed himself to be killed to see what it was like, chased the demons around even into hell, removed all the demons from governing Earth (pagan gods no longer apply) and decided to make a new, more easy to follow, covenant with "all the Nations"... "believe in me and I'll allow you to be immortal (just like you desire) like the angels in heaven and you should probably get ready to spend the rest of eternity singing and worshiping and praising and thanking me, cuz that's what you're going to be doing up there"
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 10-07-2011 at 03:09 PM..
Sorry to disappoint you guys but I will bet a million dollars that there probably is no Heaven and no Hell either. When the brain and nervous system stop working you are considered officially dead. There is not much evidence that suggests otherwise.
Electricity is the foundation of life and when that bioelectricity that animates us stops, game's over.
Last edited by DepressedKid; 10-07-2011 at 02:51 PM..
"The mind(Free-will) is a powerful thing, it can make a hell out of heaven, and so a heaven out of hell" ~ Paradise Lost, on why Satan and a whole 1/3 of the angels preferred Godless freedom in hell over tyrannic slavery in heaven.
As it turns out, Satan thought/said(lied) he had a good majority (51% of the angels fighting) on his side, and they would overthrow tyranny and establish freedom in heaven. No angel could possibly hurt another, since they are all immortal... only God could hurt them, so only God(the demiurge) had the capacity to commit evil upon them. If all the majority of angels turned against God, they would no longer have to suffer under YHWH's tyranny... truly, he thought, what was left of the demiurge (after creating the angels and maybe other things) could not possibly compare to ~34% of the angels (So powerful as they were). Turns out YHWH/Jesus was still pretty powerful and cast that rebellious third into hell, where they would not bother him and he would not bother WITH them, nor prove them right by killing them. The demons modeled hell upon heaven, working the land into a marvelous paradise for themselves. Once Satan saw Earth, he thought it was a better Paradise (or had more potential) than either heaven or hell. So he decided to go to the garden of Eden(the best place on Earth) and check stuff out before reporting back to his faithful legions in hell. Here he saw the humans, who were the chosen animal to care for Earth modeled upon the angels, and decided to trick them into acquiring "knowledge of good AND evil" to see if God/Jesus would also leave them/forsake them, and hand Earth over to the demons; who would truly be all the better for it. still Free yet happier than in hell (where the work was harder).
That is the jist of some of the Sections of Paradise Lost written by a devout Christian who begged the Holy Spirit to allow him to write the full and complete truth of the beginning of Genesis, and the rebellion of the enemy of God (Satan).
I very much doubt that Milton sympathized with Satan.
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